Comair's last undelivered -900 going to Mesaba

H46Bubba

Well-Known Member
Here we go!:rolleyes: Been less than a week and the jockeying has begun.:banghead: Delta has awarded Comair's 14th and last undelivered -900 to Mesaba. I'm beginning to think that the band is going to start playing here soon before we sink!:panic: Time to start polishing up the ol' resume.:(
 

SpiraMirabilis

Possible Subversive
I thought they would wait at least a couple weeks before the whipsaw game began. Sorry guys. I still wish you had kept those Freedom 900s! You deserved it!
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Let's think about this real quickly though. . .

How big of a loss would it be for Delta to simply liquidate and not sell Comair off?

Would they simply move the assets to another WO?

Would Delta really want to accept the loss of value that Comair has, along with it's assets?

I just have a hard time thinking that any WO will come out of this merger in a bad position.

No one, and specifically no company is really in any sort of hurry to purchase up another "regional airline." So I'm really just trying to understand how one would think that Delta would make an attempt to get rid of a WO.
 

H46Bubba

Well-Known Member
Comair and ASA's value was written off before Delta went into bankruptcy. I dont' know if going into and exiting Ch.11 with Delta has changed that? I know you guys at ASA are in the same boat of uncertainty as we are. We're the two most costly DCI carriers and we even went through CH.11 reorganization!
We have 6 more lease returns waiting to be returned. We have 5 more to return next year. That will leave us with the following fleet numbers
86: CRJ-100/200
15: CRJ-700
13: CRJ-900
From what I'm getting from a friend at DCI, the Freedom -900's will be transfered from PNCL to Mesaba in January as well as the remaining 7 undelivered aircraft. It's going to be very hard to compete with Mesaba and Compass with their cost structures being so lean. Delta has us cornered up in the Northeast and like us there, but I don't know for how much longer that will last.
 

flyingmaniac

Well-Known Member
I'm looking at the payscale at Mesaba, and wondering how can anyone live or support a family with that payscale. Talk about a pilot living in the ghetto. Seems likely working for Mesaba. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but we pilots work hard for nothing it seems like.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
Just remember, those payrates at MSA were imposed during Bankruptcy. Sure, at lot of guys went there AFTER the fact, knowing full well what they were going to get paid, but at one point in time, MSA had some of the best rates out there, not to mention excellent work rules.
 

flyingmaniac

Well-Known Member
Just remember, those payrates at MSA were imposed during Bankruptcy. Sure, at lot of guys went there AFTER the fact, knowing full well what they were going to get paid, but at one point in time, MSA had some of the best rates out there, not to mention excellent work rules.
That better explains it, thanks.
 

Blip16

Well-Known Member
Just remember, those payrates at MSA were imposed during Bankruptcy. Sure, at lot of guys went there AFTER the fact, knowing full well what they were going to get paid, but at one point in time, MSA had some of the best rates out there, not to mention excellent work rules.
and correct me if i am wrong, but it is written in their contract that they will get back to the old rates?
 

gtpilot

Well-Known Member
and correct me if i am wrong, but it is written in their contract that they will get back to the old rates?
Snapbacks this year or next will put the pilots at or close to the top of the pay scale. Their overall cost structure is still streamlined from bankruptcy though.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
The snapback + new (pre bankruptsy) contract becomes valid. Two pay raises on december 1st.

Median seniority is like 2-3 years though, so we have like 3 more years and then we get it in the back from Delta.

Wish there was some sort of national senority list.
 

saxman

Well-Known Member
Just announced another 120 pilot furloughs beginning in January. This is in addition to the 206 already furloughed now. Another 3 percent reduction in flying too. DL obviously has no plans for this WO carrier. When Mesaba and the others can operate a lot cheaper.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
Just announced another 120 pilot furloughs beginning in January. This is in addition to the 206 already furloughed now. Another 3 percent reduction in flying too. DL obviously has no plans for this WO carrier. When Mesaba and the others can operate a lot cheaper.
crap.
 

SmoothLanderJ

Well-Known Member
The snapback + new (pre bankruptsy) contract becomes valid. Two pay raises on december 1st.

Median seniority is like 2-3 years though, so we have like 3 more years and then we get it in the back from Delta.

Wish there was some sort of national senority list.
Ya know I need to read the contract because I fully don't understand it still..........
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
Ya know I need to read the contract because I fully don't understand it still..........
Join the club.

New contract rate, Date of sign +2 (DOS+2) plus 2.5% increase across the board + 1.5% increase above contract (for recovery). 4% total. This is due to the number of jets we have above the 49+12 (49+36 or 49+49 depending if your counting the 50 seaters).

I just said it all and I don't understand it either.

December 1st= we're rich beeatch!
 

ifrcfi

Well-Known Member
Just remember, those payrates at MSA were imposed during Bankruptcy. Sure, at lot of guys went there AFTER the fact, knowing full well what they were going to get paid, but at one point in time, MSA had some of the best rates out there, not to mention excellent work rules.

I guess I am confused. My understanding is that the Mesaba bankruptcy was more of a tactical financial move by Mesaba/NWA management. From the financial information I read Big Sky was holding all of the cash while Mesaba filed for Chapter 11. Did ALPA have it wrong too? I also recall reading in one our ALPA magazines discussing this same issue?
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
I guess I am confused. My understanding is that the Mesaba bankruptcy was more of a tactical financial move by Mesaba/NWA management. From the financial information I read Big Sky was holding all of the cash while Mesaba filed for Chapter 11. Did ALPA have it wrong too? I also recall reading in one our ALPA magazines discussing this same issue?
No, that's right. But in the "tactical move," they took their opportunity to gut the current contract the pilots and FAs had at Mesaba. Smartest thing they did was put snapbacks in there, though. That way, if the company grew, the pilots reaped the benefits. I'm glad they're getting the snapbacks since that means we can raise the bar in our negotiations. Although, I'm sure our management will roll out the old payscales months and cry foul months after those snapbacks have taken effect.

I'm not surprised at all to see those -900s going to Mesaba. I'm betting if Delta could find a way out of our deal, our 16 would be going there, too.
 

ifrcfi

Well-Known Member
So should there really be anything to snap back to? Not trying to pick a fight, just thinking that it would have made PCL's (and others) negotiations easier, plus shrinkage at another carrier less likely.
 

jynxyjoe

The Kickin' Chicken!
So should there really be anything to snap back to? Not trying to pick a fight, just thinking that it would have made PCL's (and others) negotiations easier, plus shrinkage at another carrier less likely.
I'm afraid that was a little brief for my understanding. Are you saying that we should not be getting snapbacks or we should have never taken concessions to begin with?
 

kellwolf

Piece of Trash
So should there really be anything to snap back to? Not trying to pick a fight, just thinking that it would have made PCL's (and others) negotiations easier, plus shrinkage at another carrier less likely.
Well, when the bankruptcy was over and done with, Mesaba was a shell of its former self. I think they just had Saabs and maybe 1 CRJ. They had one of their -200s yanked to Compass to do MSP-IAD just to keep the certificate alive. There was an order for -900s placed by NWA, but it hadn't been announced who was going to get them: Pinnacle or Mesaba. So, the union banked on Mesaba winning the -900 contract by tying the number of aircraft to previous pay rates. Mesaba was more or lessed forced into pay concessions thanks to courtroom dealings, so the snapbacks to original or better pay rates was a good move. Without the bankruptcy sham, they average pay rates at the regional level would be higher b/c Mesaba's current pay rates would be higher. All of the jet growth at Mesaba happened post bankruptcy.
 

Baronman

Well-Known Member
I'm looking at the payscale at Mesaba, and wondering how can anyone live or support a family with that payscale. Talk about a pilot living in the ghetto. Seems likely working for Mesaba. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but we pilots work hard for nothing it seems like.
True. But unfortunately the reality of the situation is Mesaba, PNCL or Colgan....whoever it is getting the new planes will be the place where there is a line out the door with applicants. Those applicants are obviously willing to fly however big a plane at whatever pay, usually most are psyched for the "big iron." Then, within the company, FOs are chomping at the bit to upgrade, they'll run the show, have higher pay etc.

So the companies have all their bases covered, and Pilots obviously are willing to sacrifice Pay and QOL at the opportunity of getting hired and upgrading. What we've seen transpire with the fight over these CRJ-900 is just that. The pay is poor, it will continue to be poor. Sure, you may get higher pay for the short term but you then risk loosing those frames to the next cheapest carrier. It's just the way the Regional world works.
 
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