Comair 5191/Eyewitness Animations

As someone who has lost more friends in aviation accidents than I have fingers and toes left to count, I can listen to them all day.

It's a good reminder that none of us are "special" in that any of this stuff can happen to me at any time if I'm not vigilant and concentrate on following procedure no matter how uncool or "anal" it makes me look which is why the "get the freight to the jet", "it's our mission to get to the intended airport" and "OMG, I don't want to cancel, lets carry this back to XYZ" mentalities I see from time to time is going to result in someone making the idiotic "they died doing what they loved" comment.

Have no doubt, an airplane doesn't care if it flies or it balls up on the side of a hill.
 
Derg said:
As someone who has lost more friends in aviation accidents than I have fingers and toes left to count, I can listen to them all day.

It's a good reminder that none of us are "special" in that any of this stuff can happen to me at any time if I'm not vigilant and concentrate on following procedure no matter how uncool or "anal" it makes me look which is why the "get the freight to the jet", "it's our mission to get to the intended airport" and "OMG, I don't want to cancel, lets carry this back to XYZ" mentalities I see from time to time is going to result in someone making the idiotic "they died doing what they loved" comment.

Have no doubt, an airplane doesn't care if it flies or it balls up on the side of a hill.
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Yup, the "died doing what they loved" comments bug the hell out of me. Its a term that makes absolutely no sense.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'll start off by saying that this is in no way a knock against you.

That said, if you fly the actual airplane it is absolutely absurd that you can't recognize the stick pusher/stall horn sound. Part 121 training has been totally remiss in providing actual stall training to pilots. I actually only heard that sound once in a sim session prior to the change of procedure after the Colgan crash, and only because we had some extra time and the instructor said "hey, check this out". Nobody did "full stall" training because the ATP PTS didn't specify it.
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We started practicing high altitude stalls in the CRJ SIM because (reason I can't say). If you hear that noise you're not having a good day.
 
GypsyPilot said:
Hmm... Well I've certainly been present for a lot of FFOD stick pusher tests and should recognize that sound, but for some reason it sounds different in this recording. Also, I've seen the pusher demo at couple of times, so I'll be quite honest and say I'm not sure why I don't recognize that sound at the end.
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It's a different sound. The sound you hear on the FFOD check is pusher/shaker. The one in the air is a STALL.
 
DPApilot said:
The hawker has something called 'Lift Dump' associated with the air brakes. It lands with flaps 45 and when brought to lift dump, the flaps continue to 75 degrees while the airbrakes increase from I believe 59 degrees to 74 on the bottom, and somewhere like 30 to 59 on the top. I'd have to look into the book for the airbrake increase though. All in all, when you use lift dump, it slows the thing down. I fly both the A with and without TRs, and the XP with TRs and I'll tell ya, lift dump really slows you down!
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Can't you stop without them? It seems they realized they didn't have them and attempted to go around.
 
FlyingPoke said:
From the same production company.



Anybody know where this one was? I'd like to read what the hell these guys were doing from the NTSB.
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ntsb_crew.jpg


Wrecked a perfectly good airplane in an easily avoidable situation.
 
On the topic of these videos, I found this one. No matter how many times I watch it...I can't imagine why the PIC would attempt to keep flying instead of just stopping on the remaining runway...


 
I took off from there not long after the accident. They had obviously closed the runway but the FO and I agreed it could EASILY of happened to anyone. No day light, bad runway markings, controllers attention divided, bad airport design.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'll start off by saying that this is in no way a knock against you.

That said, if you fly the actual airplane it is absolutely absurd that you can't recognize the stick pusher/stall horn sound. Part 121 training has been totally remiss in providing actual stall training to pilots. I actually only heard that sound once in a sim session prior to the change of procedure after the Colgan crash, and only because we had some extra time and the instructor said "hey, check this out". Nobody did "full stall" training because the ATP PTS didn't specify it.
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We did a high altitude full stall in the CRJ sim once. It quickly went into a spin, and it was so violent to sim was OOS for 8 hrs.
 
I've done a few low speed aborts. Low speed being below 80 knots. I've done 1 High Speed abort. We were around 100-110 knots. It was very stressful to stop that airplane and not blow a tire or veer off the runway, but had I not aborted we all would of probably died.
 
mrivc211 said:
We started practicing high altitude stalls in the CRJ SIM because (reason I can't say). If you hear that noise you're not having a good day.
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I think most companies have had one of those events you can't talk about. It's amazing how quickly they can get brushed under the rug when nobody dies.


deadstick said:
We did a high altitude full stall in the CRJ sim once. It quickly went into a spin, and it was so violent to sim was OOS for 8 hrs.
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The CRJ does not stall and spin well. Canadair killed three pilots finding that out.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19930726-2
 
mrivc211 said:
Can't you stop without them? It seems they realized they didn't have them and attempted to go around.
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Maybe if you heavily apply braking.... But as Costanza said, it greatly increases landing distance. Flaps 45 to 75 is quite the increase in drag.
 
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