Colgan's anti Alpa Campaign

[v1valarob]

From Dean:

November 20, 2008
Dear Fellow Pilots,
I would like to take a few minutes out of your busy schedules to share with you my personal experience with ALPA. This is my own experience with the organization, an experience that I felt I had a responsibility to share with my fellow pilots.

In 2000, I was hired by CCAir as a First Officer in the Jetstream 32. At the time, Mesa (the parent company of CCAir) was asking the CCAir pilots for concessions and pay cuts in exchange for a chance to fly the Regional Jets. CCAir’s pilots resisted several offers to take pay cuts and concessions. Mesa slowly began to dismantle CCAir. First the Jetstream 32s were grounded and Mesa's Beech 1900s were brought in to replace the
Jetstreams. Not too long after that, I received a letter informing me that I would be furloughed within the next two weeks. When I went to my ALPA union representative for advice they gave me a list of other ALPA airlines. I was assured by ALPA that I would receive “preferential treatment” by those airlines during the interviewing process. However, when I called the airlines on the list I was not treated any different (or better) than any other pilot trying to apply for a job.

The only airline that actually cared and took the time to listen to my furlough issue was Colgan Air, a nonunion airline and not on the list of “preferential treatment” carriers. Colgan not only hired me but gave me
the opportunity to be a Captain on the Saab and grow with the Company.
Most of my peers over at CCAir took the furlough and became unemployed. Finally, in 2002, a concessionary agreement was agreed to by CCAir pilots in an attempt to preserve their jobs. When voted upon and ratified, ALPA President, Duane Woerth, promised CCAir’s pilots he would sign off on the
agreement, but when presented with the agreement for his signature he refused to sign the agreement because Mesa’s pilots objected, stating it was too concessionary. The Mesa pilots wanted the additional jet
flying.

A few pilots attempted to sue ALPA in federal court in Charlotte, but U.S. District Court Judge Graham Muellen upheld ALPA's decision not to allow the new Collective Bargaining Agreement to take effect. On November 4, 2002, CCAir ceased operations. As you can see, through my experience, ALPA ruled against what the CCAir pilots had overwhelmingly voted for and another Mesa owned company, who had a much larger pilot group represented by ALPA got the jet flying. If you think ALPA will favor Colgan’s pilots over the much larger Pinnacle group you are mistaken. If you would like to speak with me personally I will be glad to answer any questions you may have.

Sincerely,
Dean Bandavanis
Director Operations

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Once again, Dean is spreading lies and misinformation. Many of you may not have been around for the last organizing drive last year, but Dean was one of the guys that started the Colgan Pilot Group farce. You see how well that worked out, huh? Suffice it to say that virtually everything in his silly letter is a lie or distortion. I gave him multiple opportunities to sit down with me or have a phone conversation last year to clear up some of these issues, but he refused. He has no intention of getting the truth out there. He is a puppet of management. Ignore him.

 

[ladder360]

Hoping for the best for the Colgan group! By reading these threads I've certainly gotten a good and different perspective about ALPA than I had prior to joining JC.

I do have a question though - and it would be really cool to hear the perspective from some of the hardest core ALPA proponents on here (PCL, Surreal, Velo, etc). For the Colgan pilot group, why would someone NOT vote in favor? What kind of rationale would they have? Serious question! Obviously the vote will not be unanimous, so what would inspire someone to vote against it?

 

[v1valarob]

Hoping for the best for the Colgan group! By reading these threads I've certainly gotten a good and different perspective about ALPA than I had prior to joining JC.

I do have a question though - and it would be really cool to hear the perspective from some of the hardest core ALPA proponents on here (PCL, Surreal, Velo, etc). For the Colgan pilot group, why would someone NOT vote in favor? What kind of rationale would they have? Serious question! Obviously the vote will not be unanimous, so what would inspire someone to vote against it?

I can see the people who live in an outstation and who have been here forever not voting. They are probably the most senior at their base, they live 10 minutes away from the airport, and nothing ever really happens to screw them over. They might see ALPA as a change in the wrong direction, and that it will ruin their currently good life.

However what most of those people don't realize that this isn't your old Colgan. I foresee within a year or so that almost no Colgan will be working with the company. Its a shame because in my dealings with the Colgans personally, they are all pretty good people. But now this is Pinnacle, you might as well start painting over the Colgan name. Pinnacle is a publicly traded business whom cares about nothing except how much money the company is making. This is at the cost of anyone, especially the pilot group. We need protection.

 

[BobDDuck]

For the Colgan pilot group, why would someone NOT vote in favor?

The research data I saw that came out of the Skywest organizing campaign was split into three different reasons. First, many of the younger guys said that they would only be there for a year or so before they got hired at a major and it just wasn't worth changing anything because they didn't care. Second many of the career guys felt that if they went with ALPA their ability to "work" with the company to make stuff happen (ie: growth) would go away. And finally many people felt that 2% of their pay wasn't worth it.

All three reasons are pretty much completly uninformed BS, but hey, it's easier to believe what you want instead of the reality.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I do have a question though - and it would be really cool to hear the perspective from some of the hardest core ALPA proponents on here (PCL, Surreal, Velo, etc). For the Colgan pilot group, why would someone NOT vote in favor? What kind of rationale would they have? Serious question! Obviously the vote will not be unanimous, so what would inspire someone to vote against it?

Usually it's a willful ignorance. We see guys passing us by at these events, refusing to even stop to talk with us. They don't even want to have their concerns answered, because they've already made up their minds. Dean's letter is a perfect example of this. I offered several times last year to talk with him about these things, and he wouldn't even return my phone calls. For whatever reason, some people have a predisposition towards hatred or distrust of unions. I could understand it if they would actually sit down and discuss the issues, but they won't even do that.

Frequent reasons that are given by the few people that will talk about it:

1. Not wanting to pay union dues

2. Belief that Pinnacle pilots will try to "steal' the Colgan flying

3. Belief that ALPA won't represent them fairly in a seniority integration

4. Belief that the company will give them the same pay and work rules without the union


These are obviously ridiculous things to believe, but some guys can't be reasoned with.

 

[L-16B]

November 21, 2008
ALPA IS NOT A QUICK FIX
Dear Colgan Pilot:
Many of you have never been involved with a union before and may wonder what it
would actually mean to you and the Company if ALPA wins the election. A number of you have
been told by ALPA supporters that you will get higher wages and other improvements if you
vote for ALPA. That is not necessarily the case. The Company is only under an obligation to
bargain in good faith with ALPA if it wins the election. This means you might get more than
what you presently have the same as what you presently have, or less than what you presently
have. ALPA can not guarantee you any improvements.
A number of our pilots are under the impression that ALPA would immediately achieve
gains for the Colgan pilots if they are elected. This also is not true. The average time for
achieving contracts in these examples was 24 months.
Pinnacle started negotiations with ALPA in the summer of 2004 to amend its contract. It
has now been over four years and there still is no contract at Pinnacle. The reason is that
ALPA’s economic demands at Pinnacle have been so unreasonable that the company has not
been able to agree to a new contract. We do not know how long it would take for Colgan and
ALPA to reach a contract. It would depend on the positions of both ALPA and the Company at
the bargaining table​

These are the facts. We hope you will consider these points in the upcoming election.

November 20, 2008
Dear Fellow Pilots,
I would like to take a few minutes out of your busy schedules to share with you my personal experience
with ALPA. This is my own experience with the organization, an experience that I felt I had a
responsibility to share with my fellow pilots.
In 2000, I was hired by CCAir as a First Officer in the Jetstream 32. At the time, Mesa (the parent
company of CCAir) was asking the CCAir pilots for concessions and pay cuts in exchange for a chance to
fly the Regional Jets.
CCAir’s pilots resisted several offers to take pay cuts and concessions. Mesa slowly began to dismantle
CCAir. First the Jetstream 32s were grounded and Mesa's Beech 1900s were brought in to replace the
Jetstreams. Not too long after that, I received a letter informing me that I would be furloughed within the
next two weeks. When I went to my ALPA union representative for advice they gave me a list of other
ALPA airlines. I was assured by ALPA that I would receive “preferential treatment” by those airlines
during the interviewing process. However, when I called the airlines on the list I was not treated any
different (or better) than any other pilot trying to apply for a job.
The only airline that actually cared and took the time to listen to my furlough issue was Colgan Air, a nonunion
airline and not on the list of “preferential treatment” carriers. Colgan not only hired me but gave me
the opportunity to be a Captain on the Saab and grow with the Company.
Most of my peers over at CCAir took the furlough and became unemployed. Finally, in 2002, a
concessionary agreement was agreed to by CCAir pilots in an attempt to preserve their jobs. When voted
upon and ratified, ALPA President, Duane Woerth, promised CCAir’s pilots he would sign off on the
agreement, but when presented with the agreement for his signature he refused to sign the agreement
because Mesa’s pilots objected, stating it was too concessionary. The Mesa pilots wanted the additional jet
flying.
A few pilots attempted to sue ALPA in federal court in Charlotte, but U.S. District Court Judge Graham
Muellen upheld ALPA's decision not to allow the new Collective Bargaining Agreement to take effect. On
November 4, 2002, CCAir ceased operations.
As you can see, through my experience, ALPA ruled against what the CCAir pilots had overwhelmingly
voted for and another Mesa owned company, who had a much larger pilot group represented by ALPA got
the jet flying. If you think ALPA will favor Colgan’s pilots over the much larger Pinnacle group you are
mistaken. If you would like to speak with me personally I will be glad to answer any questions you may
have.​

Sincerely,

 

[L-16B]

Let me say that I have the upmost respect for the writer of the second letter that I just posted. It is obvious that D.B. had a bad experience, and there are plenty of examples out there. I have heard nothing but good things about him, and he was extremely nice and understanding when I had to have a nice trip to Manassas for an unpaid vacation. I truly believe that he wants what is best for the pilot group. With that being said, VOTE ALPA!!

 

[Cruise]

Here is our response to the management misinformation that was distributed yesterday.

ENJOY!


November 21, 2008



To our fellow Colgan pilots:



Yesterday, Colgan managers circulated among the pilot group an unsigned, undated flier entitled “The Pinnacle Pilots Want Your Flying”. The letter indicates that ALPA represented pilots at Pinnacle are negotiating to protect themselves and the results of these negotiations could affect us.



The letter seems to suggest that because Pinnacle pilots have the legal right to negotiate over job security and economic issues that are important to them, and are doing just that, we should reject ALPA representation. The letter goes on to imply that we should rely on management to safeguard our interests and protect us. Before considering that outcome for yourself, you should be aware that it’s not just Pinnacle pilots who have made proposals regarding Colgan flying. Pinnacle management has also proposed that the Pinnacle and Colgan seniority lists be integrated and that we work under a single contract under certain circumstances.



We are willing to put our names at the bottom of this letter because we believe the answers to certain questions are obvious to all of us and we are willing to have that discussion with every Colgan pilot. Those questions include:



§ Do we really want to trust our careers to, and rely on suggestions about our future from, people who won’t sign their names to a letter, aren’t able to answer our legitimate questions, and can’t be held accountable in the future?



§ Does Colgan’s record over the past few years provide any basis to believe that management has the power and will to protect us?



§ Wouldn’t it be better to have representatives we elect sit at the bargaining table, get advice from our own experts and lawyers, and argue for our pilot group’s future and best interests?



§ Why does management want us to forgo the same rights that Pinnacle pilots have and why are they trying to build tension and mistrust of fellow pilots?



§ And why, despite management’s professed desire to talk and work openly with us, do they wait until the start of an election to send unsigned letters and recycle old stories like CCAir, all while they continue to remove ALPA information from non-work areas in crew lounges?



We want to answer your questions and so does the Pinnacle pilot leadership. Neither pilot group knows or can predict the decisions that management will make except to know that the corporation’s interests will be served. They may decide to keep us separate or merge us; operate fully independently or give each pilot group the opportunity to bid vacancies at the other; combine more operational functions than have already been integrated or not. No matter what their decision is, aren’t we better off with a seat at the table and a voice in our future?



Management tried the same old CCAir story last year and we will repost the OC’s response from July 31, 2007 on our webpage.



The choice before us is clear. Do we want a seat at the bargaining table – like management has – or do we want them to speak for us? The attached handout contains additional information about the allegations made in yesterday’s letter. Pinnacle MEC Chair CA Scott Erickson has appeared at many of our events and will continue to join us at our information sessions to answer any questions you might have. You can also forward questions to him via the link on the top right of our website.



For more information about ALPA, the merger policy, or representation, please visit our website at www.alpa.org/colgan or ask any member of the Organizing Committee listed below.



In unity,

The Colgan Pilots ALPA Organizing Committee



Captain John Antoniades
Captain Mark Atchue
Captain Benjamin Bray
First Officer Steven Delamar
Captain Scott Gates
Captain Matt Green
Captain Corey Heiser
First Officer Nathan Hillard
First Officer Elliott Isaacs
First Officer Kyra Ko
Captain Ronald Laurenzo
Captain Matthew Malone
Captain Timothy Newkirk
Captain Barry Nomann
Captain Brian Oakes

Captain Dave Poff
First Officer Charles Poston
Captain Mark Que
Captain Vincent Rainaldo
Captain Tom Reeder
First Officer David Schwartz
Captain Mark Segaloff
Captain Sidney Smith
First Officer Brett Smithling
Captain Michael Wheeler
First Officer Mitchell White
First Officer Carla Widman
First Officer Todd Yero
Captain Rizwan Zahid
Captain Joe Zuffoletto



I've also attached a separate document to address many of the issues we're facing right now.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Excellent letters!

 

[Cruise]

Below is the letter from the Director of Ops....it's been previously posted. HOWEVER, something has been brought to my attention regarding the validity of the letter below. Please re-read the letter, then proceed to the Wiki link below:

-----------------------------------------------------------
November 20, 2008
Dear Fellow Pilots,
I would like to take a few minutes out of your busy schedules to share with you my personal experience with ALPA. This is my own experience with the organization, an experience that I felt I had a responsibility to share with my fellow pilots.

In 2000, I was hired by CCAir as a First Officer in the Jetstream 32. At the time, Mesa (the parent company of CCAir) was asking the CCAir pilots for concessions and pay cuts in exchange for a chance to fly the Regional Jets. CCAir’s pilots resisted several offers to take pay cuts and concessions. Mesa slowly began to dismantle CCAir. First the Jetstream 32s were grounded and Mesa's Beech 1900s were brought in to replace the
Jetstreams. Not too long after that, I received a letter informing me that I would be furloughed within the next two weeks. When I went to my ALPA union representative for advice they gave me a list of other ALPA airlines. I was assured by ALPA that I would receive “preferential treatment” by those airlines during the interviewing process. However, when I called the airlines on the list I was not treated any different (or better) than any other pilot trying to apply for a job.

The only airline that actually cared and took the time to listen to my furlough issue was Colgan Air, a nonunion airline and not on the list of “preferential treatment” carriers. Colgan not only hired me but gave me
the opportunity to be a Captain on the Saab and grow with the Company.
Most of my peers over at CCAir took the furlough and became unemployed. Finally, in 2002, a concessionary agreement was agreed to by CCAir pilots in an attempt to preserve their jobs. When voted upon and ratified, ALPA President, Duane Woerth, promised CCAir’s pilots he would sign off on the
agreement, but when presented with the agreement for his signature he refused to sign the agreement because Mesa’s pilots objected, stating it was too concessionary. The Mesa pilots wanted the additional jet
flying.

A few pilots attempted to sue ALPA in federal court in Charlotte, but U.S. District Court Judge Graham Muellen upheld ALPA's decision not to allow the new Collective Bargaining Agreement to take effect. On November 4, 2002, CCAir ceased operations. As you can see, through my experience, ALPA ruled against what the CCAir pilots had overwhelmingly voted for and another Mesa owned company, who had a much larger pilot group represented by ALPA got the jet flying. If you think ALPA will favor Colgan’s pilots over the much larger Pinnacle group you are mistaken. If you would like to speak with me personally I will be glad to answer any questions you may have.

Sincerely,
Dean Bandavanis
Director Operations

-----------------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCAir






So, what do you think about that????

 

[LineUpAndWait]

Good catch. That's the problem with wikipedia. So what comes first, the chicken or the egg? (Is it plagiarism if he wrote the Wiki in the first place?)

 

[skydog]

As my old labor management relations class professor said: "Any company that has a union on the property is getting exactly what it deserves."

Management didn't learn from its mistakes. The first union drive should have been a wake-up call. They should have been wondering "What's going on that these guys want to unionize?" When the vote failed (by only 4 or 5 votes apparently), management then squandered the opportunity that had been given them, namely to address whatever issues had prompted the organizing campaign. They just went ahead with business as usual. Now a year later, everyone is right back in the same boat. If ALPA is voted onto the property this time, management has no one to blame but themselves.

 

[ladder360]

I can see the people who live in an outstation and who have been here forever not voting. They are probably the most senior at their base, they live 10 minutes away from the airport, and nothing ever really happens to screw them over. They might see ALPA as a change in the wrong direction, and that it will ruin their currently good life.

However what most of those people don't realize that this isn't your old Colgan. I foresee within a year or so that almost no Colgan will be working with the company. Its a shame because in my dealings with the Colgans personally, they are all pretty good people. But now this is Pinnacle, you might as well start painting over the Colgan name. Pinnacle is a publicly traded business whom cares about nothing except how much money the company is making. This is at the cost of anyone, especially the pilot group. We need protection.

The research data I saw that came out of the Skywest organizing campaign was split into three different reasons. First, many of the younger guys said that they would only be there for a year or so before they got hired at a major and it just wasn't worth changing anything because they didn't care. Second many of the career guys felt that if they went with ALPA their ability to "work" with the company to make stuff happen (ie: growth) would go away. And finally many people felt that 2% of their pay wasn't worth it.

All three reasons are pretty much completly uninformed BS, but hey, it's easier to believe what you want instead of the reality.

Usually it's a willful ignorance. We see guys passing us by at these events, refusing to even stop to talk with us. They don't even want to have their concerns answered, because they've already made up their minds. Dean's letter is a perfect example of this. I offered several times last year to talk with him about these things, and he wouldn't even return my phone calls. For whatever reason, some people have a predisposition towards hatred or distrust of unions. I could understand it if they would actually sit down and discuss the issues, but they won't even do that.

Frequent reasons that are given by the few people that will talk about it:

1. Not wanting to pay union dues

2. Belief that Pinnacle pilots will try to "steal' the Colgan flying

3. Belief that ALPA won't represent them fairly in a seniority integration

4. Belief that the company will give them the same pay and work rules without the union


These are obviously ridiculous things to believe, but some guys can't be reasoned with.

Thanks for responding guys. I'm just trying to understand all of it and this helps tremendously. I appreciate you guys taking the time. :rawk:

 

[sherpa]

November 21, 2008
ALPA IS NOT A QUICK FIX
Dear Colgan Pilot:
Many of you have never been involved with a union before and may wonder what it
would actually mean to you and the Company if ALPA wins the election. A number of you have
been told by ALPA supporters that you will get higher wages and other improvements if you
vote for ALPA. That is not necessarily the case. The Company is only under an obligation to
bargain in good faith with ALPA if it wins the election. This means you might get more than
what you presently have the same as what you presently have, or less than what you presently
have. ALPA can not guarantee you any improvements.
A number of our pilots are under the impression that ALPA would immediately achieve
gains for the Colgan pilots if they are elected. This also is not true. The average time for
achieving contracts in these examples was 24 months.
Pinnacle started negotiations with ALPA in the summer of 2004 to amend its contract. It
has now been over four years and there still is no contract at Pinnacle. The reason is that
ALPA’s economic demands at Pinnacle have been so unreasonable that the company has not
been able to agree to a new contract. We do not know how long it would take for Colgan and
ALPA to reach a contract. It would depend on the positions of both ALPA and the Company at
the bargaining table
These are the facts. We hope you will consider these points in the upcoming election.





there you have it folks. the latest message from our family members. quick question, how long has it taken for us to negotiate the work rules and pay we currently enjoy? oh wait nevermind

 

[USMC-SSGT]

I just got the pinnacle pilots want your flying one in the mail as well. Doesnt our management have other things to be worry about or doing other than thinking of this anti alpa propaganda junk? Shouldnt they be worrying about fixing the #3 hydraulic problem that causes at least 1 plane to be late on the headstarts 13 out of 14 days.And then I get a stupid email from ashley marsh telling me I can and still should vote teamsters.
edit...for some reason no longer how I type it out on JC when I post I end up with one long paragraph with no spaces after punctuation. For the record I attempted.

 

[surreal1221]

Doesnt our management have other things to be worry about or doing other than thinking of this anti alpa propaganda junk?

No, they do not. :bandit:

 

[v1valarob]

Or they should be worrying about how they dont have enough working planes in Dulles. They literally did not have enough working planes for the amount of flights last night. The Parkersburg flight did not even leave until 2am.

And after 2 weeks of 309 having the problem of its start relay staying closed and the prop motoring when the batt is turned on, you would think they would rip it all apart and fix it.

Last night these letters actually provided us with humor while we were getting screwed out of at least 4 hours of sleep at the hotel on a stand-up.

 

[amorris311]

i was supposed to repo a plane down to dulles last night but i timed out. my roommate took a ca america plane down and he didnt leave until 1030.

 

[v1valarob]

i was supposed to repo a plane down to dulles last night but i timed out. my roommate took a ca america plane down and he didnt leave until 1030.

Yea I was sitting in the plane waiting to get going and heard them calling in range. They had a 9400 call sign so United Express ops refused to deal with them, and didnt even respond after the "your on the wrong frequency" call back. I got on the frequency and told them to let ops know that the aircraft is going outbound to HPN. Ops still refused to help, so I think ramp had to call them and get a gate.