Coal-powered airplane

[ILS37R]

My main issue with these electric trainers right now is that a student would need to train on both the electric and ICE powerplants prior to their checkride. I can see how the electrics could be useful for pattern work or even limited air work based out of a rural airport, but there's no getting around the required longer flights for a rating. On the one hand, I see a real benefit to a student in saving a heckuva lot of money in the pattern, but I would be loathe to send a primary student to an examiner with two *very different* powerplants bouncing around their brains.

The other bummer about this particular plane is the endurance isn't quite enough for a quickie BFR (e.g. a known competent pilot just checking the box). Get me at least two hours total endurance and we'll talk, but battery tech isn't there *yet*.

I'm happy to see companies pushing the envelop and wish them success in that, but we're still half-baked when it comes to electric, people-carrying, airplanes.

 

[Adler]

 

[Richman]

3 is good, 4 is better…

 

[DropTank]

This industry is still stuck with powerplants based on 1930s technology. Electronic fuel injection and computer controlled reciprocating engines would be absolutely wonderful and should have been adopted decades ago, but the FAA has stopped almost all R&D with crippling amount of red tape. E-mags have been embraced by the experimental aircraft world, but only recently have been permitted for standard category aircraft (and only replacing one of the two magnetos). Some pilot have been drug kicking and screaming into accepting the Rotax engines, but that's 30 year old tech.

So you need to find a market for a 400K C-150 with 2 hours of endurance. I'm sure that a motor overhaul and battery replacement every 500 hours or some other maintenance requirement will also add to costs. I can see some big flight schools making that investment and 10 years later things trickling down to the LSA type market.

I don't see large turboprop sized aircraft ANYTIME in the foreseeable future. I'm sure we can get a Brassila sized electric airplane to fly, but having any payload left to earn it's keep.

I'm 100% on board for electric cars and trucks for most drivers and even light airplanes in the near future. However I still see us burning kerosene for large airplanes for a long time.

Someday hopefully:

That's a bit of a stretch. You're getting your analogies mixed up.
Which 1930 technology is in the a big jet?

As for Rotax, they kept seizing up... I mean a LOT.

if electrical motors seized up at the same rate as a ROTAX, you could keep it too!

I'm going to harp on the maintenance again. The electrical airplane that I saw (Pipstrel?) the battery could be swapped out by the pilot in a few seconds. It's a non event.

So yeah, the trainer market and the light commuter market (think Alaska and NE Cape Air like flights) are ripe for conversion.

Admittedly, 737-777 sized airplanes are likely safe for the time being.
(Although there is some work being done on hybrid systems, but I'm skeptic of those_

 

[USMCmech]

That's a bit of a stretch. You're getting your analogies mixed up.
Which 1930 technology is in the a big jet?

I'm referring to piston airplane engines which are still stuck in the same technological era with a VW Bug. This is my soapbox topic that pisses me off every time.

There is no reason that we can't have EFI reliable piston engines with variable ignition timing and running on 87 octane unleaded. The technology has been there for 30 years. The only thing stopping it is certification costs and the FAA.

 

[Lawman]

Ahh the environmentalism movement…. Where the mob ignores logic for a special brand of “scientific” populism. And every government dollar spent on a windmill farm is one not being spent to incentivize 4th Gen nuclear development and actually solve the problem of burning dead dinosaurs to charge your IPad.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Electricity is not a form of energy.

So... what is Electricity?

Electricity is a form of energy used all over the world to power everything from toasters to cars.

www.thoughtco.com

I was done after reading that.

 

[DropTank]

I'm referring to piston airplane engines which are still stuck in the same technological era with a VW Bug. This is my soapbox topic that pisses me off every time.

There is no reason that we can't have EFI reliable piston engines with variable ignition timing and running on 87 octane unleaded. The technology has been there for 30 years. The only thing stopping it is certification costs and the FAA.

Yeah I'm with you on that one. Watched the diesel (JetA i know i know) piston cluster frak and am still not impressed.
I honestly hoped we would have had micro turbines for the 100-300 hp range to do away with 100LL (100UL) and pistons once and for all.

Although I like EFI (or FADEC), they put it on the same ancient piston engine. There's just no money in a new design.
I've been watching Delta Hawk engines for what seems like forever and they, too are in development purgatory.

As much as I would like to exclusively blame the FAA, modern certification standards, very small market, with high training costs and higher insurance all combine for the perfect self destruct sequence with no single solution.

I also don't understand why piston experience is required for a license (it's been a long time since I instructed and don't know the standards).
What difference does electrical -vs- piston experience make?
With that logic, all training should be completed in a turbine plane since most pilots are going to spend the majority of their career in a turbine plane and piston skills don't transfer.

(apologies on the rant)

 

[DropTank]

Ahh the environmentalism movement…. Where the mob ignores logic for a special brand of “scientific” populism. And every government dollar spent on a windmill farm is one not being spent to incentivize 4th Gen nuclear development and actually solve the problem of burning dead dinosaurs to charge your IPad.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Whale Oil Beef Hooked!

 

[CFI A&P]

I'm referring to piston airplane engines which are still stuck in the same technological era with a VW Bug. This is my soapbox topic that pisses me off every time.

There is no reason that we can't have EFI reliable piston engines with variable ignition timing and running on 87 octane unleaded. The technology has been there for 30 years. The only thing stopping it is certification costs and the FAA.

About 15 years ago the Liberty XL-2 entered the market as a Part 23 standard category two seat trainer. It is built off of the Europa, has a Continental IO-240F engine, which is a variant of the reliable O-200 with FADEC. It also had push-pull tubes for the flight controls, much better than cables. It has been a while since I’ve been around one, but they were doing a decent job of introducing FADEC to the flying community.

 

[QXDX]

So... what is Electricity?

Electricity is a form of energy used all over the world to power everything from toasters to cars.

www.thoughtco.com

I was done after reading that.

What is the natural source of electricity? Tell me how you get electricity without either burning fossil fuels or harnessing nature.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

What is the natural source of electricity? Tell me how you get electricity without either burning fossil fuels or harnessing nature.

I’ve got some bad news for you about the laws of physics…

 

[zmiller4]

What is the natural source of electricity? Tell me how you get electricity without either burning fossil fuels or harnessing nature.

I’m confused. You claimed that electricity isn’t a form of energy, which is easily disproven by looking at the actual definition of electricity in a dictionary. But now you’re talking about how electricity is generated? Help me understand your point here…

Also, @SlumTodd_Millionaire probably has way more experience with electric vehicles than me, but my understanding and observation is that charge takes a huge hit when you repeatedly vary between low and very high loads. If this thing can legitimately do an hour of touch and goes, I bet it’s not that far technologically from being able to make a 50nm round trip cross country.

If you can save $25/hr on fuel over a 152…

I’ll also say that in the 2 years I’ve had my Tesla, the only thing I’ve had to take take it in for are rotations and alignment. State inspection takes 5mins and costs $7. Maybe I’ve gotten lucky but I suspect EV’s are vastly lower maintenance.

 

[Ayork62493]

I’m confused. You claimed that electricity isn’t a form of energy, which is easily disproven by looking at the actual definition of electricity in a dictionary. But now you’re talking about how electricity is generated? Help me understand your point here…

Also, @SlumTodd_Millionaire probably has way more experience with electric vehicles than me, but my understanding and observation is that charge takes a huge hit when you repeatedly vary between low and very high loads. If this thing can legitimately do an hour of touch and goes, I bet it’s not that far technologically from being able to make a 50nm round trip cross country.

If you can save $25/hr on fuel over a 152…

I’ll also say that in the 2 years I’ve had my Tesla, the only thing I’ve had to take take it in for are rotations and alignment. State inspection takes 5mins and costs $7. Maybe I’ve gotten lucky but I suspect EV’s are vastly lower maintenance.

I’ve had the Model 3 since April and it is hands down the best car I’ve ever owned. I have literally done nothing to the vehicle other than slap next tires on it.

 

[USMCmech]

So... what is Electricity?

Electricity is a form of energy used all over the world to power everything from toasters to cars.

www.thoughtco.com

I was done after reading that.

1. Solar energy gets converted to chemical energy and stored in the form of biomass
2. Biomass gets compressed and concentrated into coal
3. Burning coal converts chemical energy into thermal energy
4. Thermal energy is transferred into steam and converted into mechanical energy via a turbine.
5. Rotational mechanical energy is converted to electrical energy via a generator
6. Electrical energy is transmitted along wires to your house.
7. Electrical energy is converted back into thermal energy inside a filament which also emits electromagnetic waves in the visible spectrum.
8. You now have a working light bulb.

The point of this silly argument is that the vast majority of energy we use as humans is not electricity directly. We use electric motors to turn things, electric heaters to warm things up, electric lights to see with, ect. However, electricity is usually just the middle man in the transaction between stored chemical energy and the end product that we actually want.

Even this computer or phone you are reading this on needs to convert the electricity into a pattern of light and sound waves that our eyes and ears can interpret. The electrons flowing through the microchip are mostly irrelevant.

 

[BigZ]

I've been watching Delta Hawk engines for what seems like forever and they, too are in development purgatory.

A friend signed up for that scheme back in like 2004. There will never be an engine. They are not in the business of making engines, they are in the business of taking deposits.

 

[QXDX]

I’m confused. You claimed that electricity isn’t a form of energy, which is easily disproven by looking at the actual definition of electricity in a dictionary. But now you’re talking about how electricity is generated? Help me understand your point here…

@USMCmech explained it far more thoroughly than I did. The simple version is that electricity does not exist on its own. There's no natural source of electricity that can be mined or harvested. Electricity must be created. Energy cannot be created, therefore electricity is not energy.

My larger point is that electric vehicles do not give you something for nothing. A lot of people seem to think otherwise.

 

[zmiller4]

My larger point is that electric vehicles do not give you something for nothing. A lot of people seem to think otherwise.

Who thinks EV’s give you “something for nothing”?

 

[QXDX]

Who thinks EV’s give you “something for nothing”?

Every Prius owner I've ever met.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Every Prius owner I've ever met.

A Prius isn’t even an EV.