Clay Lacy

[Pay2]

Isn't the first couple of years supposed to be difficult or do you think everyone should be where you are without paying those dues.

Who said I'm not paying my dues right now? Believe me, I do not have a glamorous job and my paycheck proves it. I just think there is a huge difference between paying your dues while making crap money (like working for CLA) and doing the same after having payed for your job. It's just adding insult to injury. Anyone who thinks they can walk into aviation and make a good living without working hard for little pay is seriously mistaken. But someone who thinks its okay to pay their way to the top is even more mistaken.
This is not a personal attack on Clay Lacy, this is merely a rant about companies taking advantage of pilots and pilots allowing themselves to be taken advantage of.

 

[Rotax]

I think the biggest issue with people like Clay Lacey is that their type of business practices tend to become "infectious" in an industry.

Most companies would never try anything like what he is doing to young pilots because of the company's integrity or they never thought young pilots would be willing to take such a deal.

But all it takes is a few companies looking at his model and saying hey he's getting young pilots to go for it and we can do the same to get a financial upper hand over our competition. Well then the other companies that didn't want to treat pilots like that because of integrity have no choice but to go the same way to stay competitive. And considering the economy, price of fuel, insurance, and taxes companies are going to be looking for every way they can to cut costs especially ones not visible to the customer.

It's the same deal that happened with shipping jobs overseas. A lot of companies didn't want kill America jobs but once just one of their competitors decided to leave and got that competitive financial upper hand the others had no choice but to do the same.

 

[mshunter]

Perhaps i've been looking at this thread the wrong way. Remove clay from the conversation and look at the company, it's no worse or sometimes better than what's available elsewhere. I enjoyed my time there and i value the friends i made. It's the largest 135 op at KVNY and has been around for 40 yrs. Ignoring a possible way to advance based on what happened 25 yrs ago seems silly. CLA runs the way it does because the workforce allows it, clay is an easy target for young disgruntled pilots. In my time there i saw young hungry pilots flying LR35s and complaining, Lead pilots flying G550s and complaining, but i've also seen very happy people flying hawkers, gulfstreams, and other airframes. I think it depends on your "character". Isn't the first couple of years supposed to be difficult or do you think everyone should be where you are without paying those dues.

My "character" says I shouldn't work for crap wages and be responsible for a training contract. My "character" also says I should'nt be paid a gaurentee that takes me to a certain hour mark everymonth, then cuts me off just before I get past it to avoid paying me any extra every month. May "character" also tells me that I should have a little respect and wait for the right opportunity, not just the first one that falls in my lap.

I started off as a flight instructor. I then moved on the a PA31 in passenger operations across the field from CLA. I then started sitting left seat in a Lear31. Then I moved on to a Lear55. Everytime I changed positions, I moved up just a little bit in pay, and experince. Kind of a natural progression. I never once had to pay for any of my training, and all but one of the companies paid me while I was training. The reason is because I was patient, and took my time.

No one is saying that a person who flys for Clay is a self'disrespecting bag. But many are saying that Clay, and his attitude towards aviation and the industry is harmful to the entire operation. No one is calling you to the carpet as a bag either. I have seen no one disrespect you, and call you anything. But what people have done is speak up about what they know about him and his operation. I see no harm in educating people about what they might be getting themselves into. Whats the harm in that? After all, I think thats one of the purposes of this website. To educate the pilot population about what should and shouldn't be acceptable from people who are in the industry, and what they have seen cause a decline in what was once a very good industry, to what has become an average industry because too many people are willing to screw the guy standing next to him, and undercut him to "get there faster."

What they don't realize is that they have set thier standard, and they will have to live with it. And those who wait for the right oportunity usually get that opportunity. What has happened to peoples morals and "charactor" when they will screw the guy next to them to get the position.

 

[gotWXdagain]

No, "scab" has a universally recognized dictionary definition. It's not a matter of opinion. Crossing a union picket line makes you a scab. Period. Look it up in your favorite dictionary. In the Dunn v. ALPA litigation, the judge ruled that calling someone a scab (yes, even in print) is not libel or slander if the person in question did in fact cross a picket line. Why? Because the word scab has a definition, and making factually correct statements is not libel or slander.

At first I was going to troll this, but then:

SCAB   [skab] Show IPA noun, verb, scabbed, scab·bing.
noun
1. the incrustation that forms over a sore or wound during healing.
2. Veterinary Pathology . a mangy disease in animals, especially sheep; scabies. Compare itch ( def. 10 ) .
3. Plant Pathology .
a. a disease of plants characterized by crustlike lesions on the affected parts and caused by a fungus or bacterium.
b. one of these crustlike lesions.
4. a worker who refuses to join a labor union or to participate in a union strike, who takes a striking worker's place on the job, or the like.
5. Slang . a rascal or scoundrel.

Learn something new every day.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

A SCAB to refuse to join a union? Does this make all that vote no to a union a SCAB? Just wondering for those that voted down union representation at an airline.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Please spare us all this "Innocence Abused" crap. You stuck up for a bad guy, you got called on it, and now everyone who thinks Lacy is a Scab Scumbag is taking food out of Hardworking Murican's mouths. Chuckle.

Most guys I know have worked somewhere they wished they hadn't. The first step to Recovery is admitting that you did something dumb.

Consider: Sooner or later you're going to get a job you actually like, or at least "can stand". And then it's going to be the Clay Lacies of the world who will put your decent company straight out of business by manning the planes with galley-slaves who will work (and break regulations) for a Taco Bell "to-go" meal and beer money in order to get to that Good Job which will then go away because some other dude is willing to work for...

You get the idea. End the cycle of Madness!