CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
The same for the smaller Challenger, but that doesn't eliminate the hazards of DEF if the station is mixing it whether or not the aircraft requires it.
Challenger crashed onto highway in Naples FL
- Thread starter Inverted
- Start date
The same for the smaller Challenger, but that doesn't eliminate the hazards of DEF if the station is mixing it whether or not the aircraft requires it.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I need to read the entire thread again to see if it was mentioned.
I wonder if they had an engine issue and shut down the wrong engine. USAF lost one a few years ago in this manner.
I wonder if they had an engine issue and shut down the wrong engine. USAF lost one a few years ago in this manner.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
That's happened across all industries (military, charter, airline...), but I haven't heard anything reporting that had an engine issue or declaring an emergency before landing on road. Then again, I haven't combed through all of it either, nor have I listened to the LiveATC feed.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Yeah, has happened in all sectors.
They might have been working the problem and failed to com. I just mentioned this possibility as it seems more likely than some other scenarios, previously mentioned.
The GE engines didn’t require it, for the reasons mentioned. Our mil model of same didn’t require it either.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Coldest I've ever seen was -80c but I’ve spent my fair amount of time cruising at -70c in aircraft without Prist for the same reason. Never have an issue.
It’ll take a little research to confirm but I think most the DEF contamination events were almost immediate, rather than during the descent.
melax
Well-Known Member
I don't know how relevant or accurate this manual is to the accident airplane, but on page 34, references to various additives is mentioned with a specific note on PRIST not to be added directly into the tanks. It must be pre-blended with the fuel which is one way Ohio state dispenses it. I guess we'll find out soon. I feel for the families of the pilots, such a horrific event.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
That limitation addresses the practice of spraying aerosol Prist from a can into the fuel filler while the fueler is using the overwing nozzle. Whereas the fuel is premixed either on the truck, or upstream at fuel provider. For those that have not experienced this, here's how you usually find that out:
"Yes, I'd like 500 gallons, negative Prist on N16020."
"It is all premixed here."
"With Prist it is, thanks."
KLB
Well-Known Member
That's pretty much how it works. PRIST is also good every once in a while for biocidal reasons.
Autothrust Blue
Speed Bugs, Surf, Sunshine
You can sue 'em, rather successfully, however.
(you can STILL) Frak Fizer, and so on:
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
You've raised a very good point. While it should have occurred to me that this is a possibility, I had a difficult time imaging it. Of course, in training were taught to confirm important items; thrust levers, fire push switch-lights and generator switches in the case of the CL-604/605. However, that close to the airport my experience would tell me to do nothing if I have at least one good engine running other than declare an emergency and plan a flaps 20 landing and re-bug Ref+14 for Vapp. Too damn close to the ground to be fooling with things that could make it go deadly quiet...
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
I wasn't aware that Prist was an algicide? We never used it at the two airlines I flew for, and it's not used normally in the Challenger 600-series. Also sediment and water would be at the bottom of the tank. It's just so damned baffling at this point...However, there is going to be ONE simple link in the chain that was the proximate cause of the accident...Once again, very impressed with the actions of the flight attendant! GOOD JOB!
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
Honestly, in my experience flying I never had to deal with Prist...When I did see it being added, the fuelers used a thing that looked like an aerosol can. However, this was in like 1978! So, I'm kinda long in the tooth now...Now, I have recently as a couple of years ago spoken with a CL-604 driver that had an algae bloom in their tanks on the way to Jo-Berg following a fuel stop in Entebbe, Uganda. They wound up with a load of water, and after a couple of days flying in S.A. they lost indications on the totalizer and one of the main tanks ( wings ). However, they had no filter bypass indications or engine anomalies. This one incident that I am aware of personally, and I'll bet there's been more over the long career of the CL-600 series. Since I was typed in June 2015, there's been more than a half-dozen hull losses on this type. IT IS a really good airplane, however, it has gained a somewhat sullied reputation, mostly due to take-off with contaminated wings and not fully understanding the unique aerodynamics of the super-critical wing...
The worst, are the guys who ask Prist or no prist (we don’t use it). And when I answer no prist, then they say it’s premixed. Then why bother asking. I’m getting it anyway apparently.
At that point, flying a dead stick landing is your only option. There are no restarts occurring or any other checklists going, besides configuring.
footloose
Well-Known Member
New here. Hi all. Regarding the the DEF, Prist conversation, I work line at the sole FBO at CLT. Not sure about other places but we have a Prist tank and a DEF tank on all our fuel trucks. So the Prist gets mixed in in the fueling process with the turn of a knob if requested. Obviously the DEF and Prist tanks are clearly labeled but mistakes could happen. The DEF and Prist refilling areas are clearly marked and labeled and are kept about 100 yards from each. Further making extra steps not to confuse or combine the 2.
If you're ever at Wilson Air at CLT during the night say hi. I usually have a smile unless a Lav is requested
If you're ever at Wilson Air at CLT during the night say hi. I usually have a smile unless a Lav is requested
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
At one point it was considered such, but somewhat of an old-pilot's tale now. Prist changed their formula, and materials to remove reference of being antifungal. If I remember correctly that change was for legal reasons and to mitigate product liability. The biocide product is marketed as Biobor and sold separately.
I’d heard that the formula stayed the same but they just stopped claiming anti fungal properties. Regardless, we use biobar. Our home base used to be premix but now they’re charging $.19/gallon to add the extra hazard of DEF contamination whenever they don’t listen to me and add prist anyhow (ask me how I really feel).
LITwptMEEOW
Well-Known Member
I was in class with Ian a few years ago. Very conscientious airman who had a tremendous breadth and depth of experience. Most importantly, he seemed like someone who really cared about his family. I hope they can find peace.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
What I was told re: Prist 20ish years ago in a&p school is that it helps with algal growth because the algae grows at the interface of the water and the fuel, and prist helps keep the water suspended and flowing through the system rather than collecting and making water bubbles. Not sure if it was true or if I remember accurately but that’s what’s in my head.
