Challenger 300 Turbulence Death - Prelim Released

derg said:
At $6,000+ per flight-hour cost, you appear to be hatin' from ousside a club you cain't get in.
Click to expand...

Both “clubs” I have worked at are nowhere close to what I signed up for in the job interview in this crazy industry. I couldn’t give zero craps about any airline, I have looked only at bases. Zero ego here in terms of which major to work for. You’re not gonna hear some teary eyed sob story about how I wanted to work at United or Delta or American. I’m sure you know, but people lie to you. They have apps at UA and AA too as they ooze over Delta in front of you.
 
Been on a United 777 before. Physical jumpseat too once from SFO to EWR redeye. That was a couple years ago, when both the CA and FO were older gray haired, experienced, and not the Instagram generation. Men who appreciated manual cars too! :) Not the modern day men and their cameras, phones, look at me, and electric cars - which are their new pious Prius of today. ;)
 
giphy-7.gif

And stop trying to make "fetch", I mean "corpie" happen.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Where have I heard this before?

Rudder travel limit fault.

Gulfstream 4, Bedford, MA. Katz airplane.

Gust Lock engaged. Zero checklists. Zero flight control checks. All dead.



And now this one.



Sorry, this will hurt the egos of many here but I don’t care: You couldn’t pay me to step aboard a corporate jet.
Click to expand...
Because, my god man, the 121 crowd *never* screws the pooch. Never.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I could totally see how this could happen to even good pilots who couldn’t separate the perceived pressures from Mr Big and doing a good enough job to not kill someone.

Last minute call outs to the airport, someone telling you “oh the airplane is good to go” when you show up. Then being afraid to stop the operation and admit to Mr Big: “hey this went bad we need fo shut the airplane down and hard reset to make it work.”

Now you kill Mr. Bigs wife trying to make him happy and you could go to jail for it.

The airline vs corporate discussion is also dumb. Corporate is worse only because the holes in the cheese line up more often entirely because people are allowed to put themselves in that position.

When I was at SkyWizzle in training they showed us videos of the guys that took off without fueling and almost crashed. A CRJ almost crashed into a mountain near EUG, they had to limit their altitude because they kept stalling airplanes… it was a disaster. The only real difference is they weren’t trying to hide it from Mr Big.

My current shop is arguably worse. Mostly due to our horrible “checking department.” That has reenforced the bad habits of “doing things fast from memorization” that are leading to things like unnecessary engine shutdowns because of a non existent fuel leak.

The cowboy mentality is out of control. I had to threaten to walk off an aircraft more than once to get de-iced. Now I have learned to shape the discussion of getting an ice check to mention that “if you check it and say it’s good and take responsibility for it, then I’m ok with it.” It’s because I’m tired of arguing with guys who don’t want to get deiced and I only have a short time before I’m the captain asking my FO nicely to “please call iceman for an ice check.” Instead of ranting about wasting the companies money and time and claiming the “ice check” employees have no idea what they are doing.

Guys set off the EGPWS so much in SE AK we can’t fly VFR anymore. Which to me was a relief. Because it was so much extra work to get a VFR flight plan and then hold on for dear life while some guy rocketed out of WRG off runway 28 headed for a mountain and asked for flaps up too early because “my record for WRG to SIT is 7 minutes.”

All the astronauts on the Challenger died a horrible fiery death because of a perceived pressure to make Ronald Regan happy about blasting a teacher into space and the perception their space vehicle was unreliable. So NASA goes out of limits on temperature for launch. Intentionally. Multiple times. At the NASA flight department.

If you don’t have the hubris to admit this could be you that’s when I worry about you. We are all capable of this. Myself included.

Just last week, I had to wait 8 hours at the airport because the inbound crew taxied into a ladder. Contract maintenance was removing the lower winglets. I told the FAs and the captain “If they ask me to extend I should say no I’m too tired.” So when the captain got the call “will you extend”, the captain asks me and I start babbling “well I do hate deadheading and I don’t feel that bad.” One of the FAs looks at me and says: “YOU SAID YOURE TOO TIRED TO BE SAFE.”

That snapped me out of it. “Sorry I’m too tired to extend.”

Sleeping in a hotel was an excellent decision and the next day the captain and I agreed we would have been too tired.

No one is safe from themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I’m working my way through this thread but I’m not gonna wait to say that was perfectly said.
 
mikecweb said:
I will say the lack of systems training on the 121 side has been shocking.
Click to expand...

I had a pretty well-thought out supplement to this and realized that I'd potentially say some things I'd regret later (in support of the above) so I got on with the delete key.

I'd have liked a lot more depth and a lot less reading-the-powerpoint-slide-to-the-class in training. There is a reason that a lot of us struggled with pneumatics on the -145 and it wasn't because we were morons or just new to the concept.

Roger Roger said:
2 things
1. Your average part 25 airplane has become so complicated and has so many magic boxes that you’re just not going to be able to be an expert on the whole thing

2. there’s a not insignificant history of pilots trying to use system knowledge to do things they weren’t supposed to do and having that backfire. It might be better in the aggregate if people don’t know enough to try to outsmart the checklist.
Click to expand...

I agree with the spirit of this, but a large chunk of my confidence in operating the airplane stems from my understanding of what's "behind the scenes" when an EICAS message comes up or a light comes on (or goes off) when it's not supposed to. Often these things are related to other things that I *do* need to understand, but I take your point.
 
Boris Badenov said:
It's also a UPS thing. Maybe a little bit less of an Omni thing, but definitely still a thing. To this day I know vastly more about how a Falcon works than any Boeing.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure who did your oral at OAI, but mine was pretty in-depth. I agree about Brown, I remember thinking "this is it?"

I'm happy we no longer need to draw out each system. That was no fun.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
You’re leaving out a lot of stuff that I mentioned, plus a lot more. Simply put, it is straight up impossible to operate a piston twin to the same degree of safety as a 121 airliner of any manufacture, no matter how hard you try. A corporate jet can be different, but most often is not.
Click to expand...
Did you hand fly that thing at all?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Been on a United 777 before. Physical jumpseat too once from SFO to EWR redeye. That was a couple years ago, when both the CA and FO were older gray haired, experienced, and not the Instagram generation. Men who appreciated manual cars too! :) Not the modern day men and their cameras, phones, look at me, and electric cars - which are their new pious Prius of today. ;)
Click to expand...

Who would have guessed old men are CC’s kink
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top