Challenger 300 Turbulence Death - Prelim Released

SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
Which thing? The 421? Yeah, the autopilot is the pretty basic original Cessna autopilot, so sometimes you have to.
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EIR said:
I'm not sure who did your oral at OAI, but mine was pretty in-depth. I agree about Brown, I remember thinking "this is it?"

I'm happy we no longer need to draw out each system. That was no fun.
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Like I say, less a thing at OAI, for sure. But I *know* (or at least knew) a Falcon pretty well. Quite possibly because they couldn't figure out what else to make you do for four weeks at CAE, but still.
 
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Just for the record. Brown didn't used to be like that. 727 F/E school in the early 90's was quite in depth. Then AQP came along, orals for initial went away (at least on my fleet), and slowly the company was able to dumb things down. It was a slow transition over a long period of time. I didn't see it as so much a Brown thing but a change in the industry in general.
 
Counter point:

I've been studying for the 737 systems test for over a month now. Memorizing the items on the A and B hydraulic system.

They are listed in the QRH when you run a checklist for a hydraulic system issue. So why memorize them?

Personally I'd rather have pilots that didn't work from memory under a stressful situation and methodically and calmly ran a checklist. But I realize my opinion has zero value and I know nothing...
 
KLB said:
Exactly.
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Yup. As a part 91 operator myself, what was it that these guys missed that a 121 carrier would have caught? If they are the gold standard of safety what would have a 121 adhered to that these guys didn't that would have prevented the mishap? No circling approaches? It's also what got the guys at Truckee.
 
Wardogg said:
Yup. As a part 91 operator myself, what was it that these guys missed that a 121 carrier would have caught? If they are the gold standard of safety what would have a 121 adhered to that these guys didn't that would have prevented the mishap? No circling approaches? It's also what got the guys at Truckee.
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It would have been an RNP. Or more specifically at our shop, a company-specific RNP approach not available to others. Avoids the whole cranking and bankin and turning her right in. Just follow the path via RNP.
 
KLB said:
*"They canceled IFR and continued VFR in VFR conditions" is how I should have phrased it.
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“Cancel IFR and continue.”


Vernacular that doesn’t exist in my 121 (anymore). No thank you. Actually, I think (?) we can for an approach into some AS airports in order to let someone else in/out first, but I’m restricted from that flying so not sure. All I know is, I ain’t cancelling IFR in the air. And why you cancelling IFR? To reduce yourselves to lower standards that allow you to proceed a certain way you couldn’t before? Nothing against my fellow JC Corpies, but I ain’t having it. :)
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Nope. And don’t plan to either.
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I'd be very hesitant to be so opinionated about things I've never done before. You should also really look into what your airline does in SE Alaska. It's really not that different at all. I've said many times that Aspen, Telluride and Truckee can't hold a candle to what your airline does in SE Alaska. We can cancel IFR and we can effectively do a circle to land approach in VFR conditions just like "corpies" do at Truckee. Even at night... I personally would not do it but as recently as this month I've been told I would be a "problem" by a SE regular due to my hesitancy to cancel IFR.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I'd be very hesitant to be so opinionated about things I've never done before. You should also really look into what your airline does in SE Alaska. It's really not that different at all. I've said many times that Aspen, Telluride and Truckee can't hold a candle to what your airline does in SE Alaska. We can cancel IFR and we can effectively do a circle to land approach in VFR conditions just like "corpies" do at Truckee. Even at night... I personally would not do it but as recently as this month I've been told I would be a "problem" by a SE regular due to my hesitancy to cancel IFR.
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That’s why I said, I believe they can. I don’t do that flying. From my OE trip through SE in crap ass weather in a November, I did RNPs to every SE airport that trip. I wasn’t gonna cancel something and attempt a VFR approach.


You’re a CA now. LET your FO tell you that you are a “problem” for not being cancelling IFR. Who GAF. You’re talking, at best, a FEW minutes added to the flight. Or at best, 10-25 minutes someone else may have to wait for you to arrive/depart. Not. My. Problem.


The accident record doesn’t show the slow, patient pilot. It shows the hurried/quick, cancel IFR, and hold my beer as we crank and bank this one right in types. No thank you. And zero ego hurt when a FO feels like I should have cancelled IFR. No we are not. Sorry if that added a few minutes to your day. Actually, I’m not sorry. If you are a 2018 or earlier hire, you could be a CA. Go upgrade if you feel so strongly about it. Me? If I was SEA? I would make my experiment in SE clear and tell them up front I ain’t cancelling IFR. And we are doing RNPs to each one.
 
Oh and btw, I know an airline that lost its ability to do VFR routes in Alaska. And these are the CAs and FOs you want me to fear I might inconvenience them?
 
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