CFI Training and Checkride Write Up - SDL FSDO
- Thread starter Shiner
- Start date
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
There is nothing that says a student cannot request and receive special VFR. The special VFR minimums are just that, minimums. A student has a visibility limitation of 3SM day per the FARs but there is no ceiling limitation. A student pilot may request special VFR in controlled airspace to the surface provided there is at least 3 SM visibility and they remain clear of clouds and the controlled airspace allows SVFR.
This is where 61.87(a)(8) becomes important. It's the CFIs job to put NO SVFR in their limitations.
This is where 61.87(a)(8) becomes important. It's the CFIs job to put NO SVFR in their limitations.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
What about the airworthiness certs? Maybe the pink ones are for the girly light sport planes....
Der_Meister
Well-Known Member
Sec. 61.89
General limitations.
(a) A student pilot may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft:
(1) That is carrying a passenger;
(2) That is carrying property for compensation or hire;
(3) For compensation or hire;
(4) In furtherance of a business;
(5) On an international flight, except that a student pilot may make solo training flights from Haines, Gustavus, or Juneau, Alaska, to White Horse, Yukon, Canada, and return over the province of British Columbia;
(6) With a flight or surface visibility of less than 3 statute miles during daylight hours or 5 statute miles at night;
(7) When the flight cannot be made with visual reference to the surface; or
(8) In a manner contrary to any limitations placed in the pilot's logbook by an authorized instructor.
(b) A student pilot may not act as a required pilot flight crewmember on any aircraft for which more than one pilot is required by the type certificate of the aircraft or regulations under which the flight is conducted, except when receiving flight training from an authorized instructor on board an airship, and no person other than a required flight crewmember is carried on the aircraft.
General limitations.
(a) A student pilot may not act as pilot in command of an aircraft:
(1) That is carrying a passenger;
(2) That is carrying property for compensation or hire;
(3) For compensation or hire;
(4) In furtherance of a business;
(5) On an international flight, except that a student pilot may make solo training flights from Haines, Gustavus, or Juneau, Alaska, to White Horse, Yukon, Canada, and return over the province of British Columbia;
(6) With a flight or surface visibility of less than 3 statute miles during daylight hours or 5 statute miles at night;
(7) When the flight cannot be made with visual reference to the surface; or
(8) In a manner contrary to any limitations placed in the pilot's logbook by an authorized instructor.
(b) A student pilot may not act as a required pilot flight crewmember on any aircraft for which more than one pilot is required by the type certificate of the aircraft or regulations under which the flight is conducted, except when receiving flight training from an authorized instructor on board an airship, and no person other than a required flight crewmember is carried on the aircraft.
Der_Meister
Well-Known Member
Then it would be IFR and still no. since IFR is <1000' and/or 1-3SM; MVFR is 1000'-3000' and/or 3-5SM. Then one must fallow the basic VFR weather mins in 91.155 and fallow
91.157
(a) Except as provided in appendix D, section 3, of this part, special VFR operations may be conducted under the weather minimums and requirements of this section, instead of those contained in §91.155, below 10,000 feet MSL within the airspace contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport.
(b) Special VFR operations may only be conducted—
(1) With an ATC clearance;
(2) Clear of clouds;
(3) Except for helicopters, when flight visibility is at least 1 statute mile; and
(4) Except for helicopters, between sunrise and sunset (or in Alaska, when the sun is 6 degrees or more below the horizon) unless—
(i) The person being granted the ATC clearance meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter; and
(ii) The aircraft is equipped as required in §91.205(d).
(c) No person may take off or land an aircraft (other than a helicopter) under special VFR—
(1) Unless ground visibility is at least 1 statute mile; or
(2) If ground visibility is not reported, unless flight visibility is at least 1 statute mile. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term flight visibility includes the visibility from the cockpit of an aircraft in takeoff position if:
(i) The flight is conducted under this part 91; and
(ii) The airport at which the aircraft is located is a satellite airport that does not have weather reporting capabilities.
(d) The determination of visibility by a pilot in accordance with paragraph (c)(2) of this section is not an official weather report or an official ground visibility report.
91.157
(a) Except as provided in appendix D, section 3, of this part, special VFR operations may be conducted under the weather minimums and requirements of this section, instead of those contained in §91.155, below 10,000 feet MSL within the airspace contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport.
(b) Special VFR operations may only be conducted—
(1) With an ATC clearance;
(2) Clear of clouds;
(3) Except for helicopters, when flight visibility is at least 1 statute mile; and
(4) Except for helicopters, between sunrise and sunset (or in Alaska, when the sun is 6 degrees or more below the horizon) unless—
(i) The person being granted the ATC clearance meets the applicable requirements for instrument flight under part 61 of this chapter; and
(ii) The aircraft is equipped as required in §91.205(d).
(c) No person may take off or land an aircraft (other than a helicopter) under special VFR—
(1) Unless ground visibility is at least 1 statute mile; or
(2) If ground visibility is not reported, unless flight visibility is at least 1 statute mile. For the purposes of this paragraph, the term flight visibility includes the visibility from the cockpit of an aircraft in takeoff position if:
(i) The flight is conducted under this part 91; and
(ii) The airport at which the aircraft is located is a satellite airport that does not have weather reporting capabilities.
(d) The determination of visibility by a pilot in accordance with paragraph (c)(2) of this section is not an official weather report or an official ground visibility report.
The section you just highlighted refers to requesting SVFR at "night" (between sunset and sunrise) read the paragraph directly above what you just highlighted. I still see no reason why a student pilot can't request and get SVFR during the day if vis is
above 3 miles and ceiling is say, 800ft in controlled airspace to the ground.
above 3 miles and ceiling is say, 800ft in controlled airspace to the ground.
Der_Meister
Well-Known Member
Indeed it is my mistake, but then the question arises why would you?
Exactly, good to know the regs inside and out to know it's legal. But then you also have to ask is it safe. I and no CFI I know
would ever allow a student pilot to request SVFR. I only brought it up because someone previously said a student pilot cannot
request SVFR. Just good clean reg digging
would ever allow a student pilot to request SVFR. I only brought it up because someone previously said a student pilot cannot
request SVFR. Just good clean reg digging
rframe
pǝʇɹǝʌuı
A literal reading of the regs does support this, however FSDO inspectors have been quoted in the past saying there is an implied restriction against SVFR for students. Now then, we know FSDO inspectors are all "standardized" on their interpretations of regulations (hehehe).... but in this case, with the obvious lack of common sense that would be involved in most cases with letting a student do it, which in and of itself would probably put the CFI in the crosshairs of the inspector who witnesses it, and the history of some FAA folks saying "no"... I would still answer this the same way... "no svfr".
I actually went and searched looking for a FSDO quote I'm sure I've seen before for a few minutes and didn't find one, so... take that for what it's worth.
Der_Meister
Well-Known Member
^nice! :beer:
Even still I'm unconvinced that a student pilot can't request and be granted SVFR unless I see some reg
supporting no SVFR for student pilots. How else can 91.157 b(4(i)) be interpreted? If it's not interpreted literally then it's also
( and you) are in essence saying a private pilot could never request SVFR either since they dont have an instrument rating.
supporting no SVFR for student pilots. How else can 91.157 b(4(i)) be interpreted? If it's not interpreted literally then it's also
( and you) are in essence saying a private pilot could never request SVFR either since they dont have an instrument rating.
Der_Meister
Well-Known Member
My " Nice and :beer:" was for you Live2fly. rframe took my spot to make it work.
Der_Meister
Well-Known Member
^its the only way to learn.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
I've seen one of my students request and receive SVFR before.
I was sitting right next to them. Ground control didn't know I was there. Something to think about.
I was sitting right next to them. Ground control didn't know I was there. Something to think about.
Shiner
El Capitan
Answer time. Very interesting discussion on SVFR for student pilots. I did not know that it wasn't specifically prohibited, so I will certainly be adding that limitation to my endorsements. Great stuff!
