Cessna CE - 525 Type Rating

coming to this thread a bit late - looks like we've been doin it wrong all these years........

Actually given this kid is going to be flying a jet while us lesser mortals pke holes in 172s with no nothing students it has an awful air of irony about it.

Good luck to the OP - looks like you found a way to shortcut the system.

Bp244
 
It would be interesting to see if the SIC type actually helps this guy. Likely it wont. Good on him if it does. It would be cool if he updates us if he does get a corporate flying job.

It is hard to tell how he did get the SIC type. Judging by the posts it looks like he got it through an internship at Flight Safety.

My experience leads me to believe that an SIC type will get you nowhere without a lot of experience in the aircraft. Basically you need a job offer with the type. IMHO it isn't worth paying for. An SIC type usually flying SIC only in a Citation isn't the highest paying job.

Again it would be cool if the OP keeps us up to date on his progress. There could be a lot to learn from this...
 
Ok, unless I'm just really dumb here, or something ... something here doesnt add up. First of all what is an SIC type rating? Either you have one or you dont.

Anyone can get a SIC in the citation. . . quick systems overview and three full stop landings and you have a log book endorsement saying you are a SIC!! I should know, cause I just got one on a demo flight in a CE-650.

As far as the "type rating" in the citation, as far as I know, you either have one or you dont! We are looking to buy a CE-650 and with a call to flight safety I was quoted a "type rating" only!!!! No "SIC"???!?!? Yes, it is a two "qualified" pilot aircraft, but the other pilot can only have a SIC. . . again, given by a Typed Rated pilot!!!
For international reasons, you may need two "typed" rated pilots for the trip, or for insurance reasons (my case).

So an "SIC Type Rating" seems like a lot of hot air for kids with two much money to be getting! Again, go on a demo flight with a cool Typed pilot and get it then! As far as a job goes, who is going to care. . .uh. . no one that has any clue. . that is who!!!!!

So please, some one please correct me if I'm wrong! Again, what ever happend to getting your CFI-I-I-I-I-I-I-I and getting this stuff done the old fashioned way!?
 
jerrywhite7 said:
Ok, unless I'm just really dumb here, or something ... something here doesnt add up. First of all what is an SIC type rating? Either you have one or you dont.

Anyone can get a SIC in the citation. . . quick systems overview and three full stop landings and you have a log book endorsement saying you are a SIC!! I should know, cause I just got one on a demo flight in a CE-650.

As far as the "type rating" in the citation, as far as I know, you either have one or you dont! We are looking to buy a CE-650 and with a call to flight safety I was quoted a "type rating" only!!!! No "SIC"???!?!? Yes, it is a two "qualified" pilot aircraft, but the other pilot can only have a SIC. . . again, given by a Typed Rated pilot!!!
For international reasons, you may need two "typed" rated pilots for the trip, or for insurance reasons (my case).

So an "SIC Type Rating" seems like a lot of hot air for kids with two much money to be getting! Again, go on a demo flight with a cool Typed pilot and get it then! As far as a job goes, who is going to care. . .uh. . no one that has any clue. . that is who!!!!!

So please, some one please correct me if I'm wrong! Again, what ever happend to getting your CFI-I-I-I-I-I-I-I and getting this stuff done the old fashioned way!?
Click to expand...

Jerry,

Usually you write quite a bit better than this, so I'm having somewhat of a hard time following you here. But I will try to decipher the rambling and incoherent portions of your post...

Whether or not the airplane is a Citation, Hawker, or Gulfstream, a SIC type rating can be obtained by doing the SIC familiarization training outlined in FAR 61.55(d) and submitting the appropriate paperwork (and signoffs) to a FSDO. As you stated above, when flying internationally, a SIC type rating is typically required instead of just the 61.55 endorsement. The procedures for doing this are explained here:
http://www.nbaa.org/admin/personnel/sic/

Flightsafety, Simcom, Simuflite, etc. will happily provide a client with either a PIC or SIC type rating at the conclusion of training. It's just a matter of which checkride the client takes, and there really isn't much of a difference between the two rides (in terms of tasks or costs). In some cases, your insurer will require the SIC to have training performed with a particular provider (such as Flightsafety) rather than a few laps in the pattern (i.e. the 61.55 training). From what I understand, some employers like to just have the right seater get the SIC rating so that they won't bolt 6 months later with a full PIC type.

The real issue here, in my opinion, is time in type. Regardless of one having a PIC or SIC type (and whatever school house training), the real value to a potential employer is when the applicant has experience in the aircraft type. If I went out and bought a full PIC type for a Lear 35 at Flightsafety, it would be pretty meaningless since I have zero hours of Lear 35 experience. I would not expect any Lear operators to be impressed by this at all. In fact, they'd probably be far more impressed with a candidate that has the 61.55 endorsement (not even a type), yet has tons of time in the airplane.
 
sorry for the rambling. . . yes, I agree with all that you wrote here. . . I guess I dont understand why someone would pay for a SIC type rating when the cost and training is the same as a true PIC type. But as for company's I can totally understand that!

This is what I get for typing while trying to babysit my kids!!!

Jerry
 
It was through a scholarship, so I didn't pay for it. As for opportunities, I've already gotten a chance to get some time in a King Air because of it. They just wanted me to have a little more experience when I had been asking around this past summer. So is it for pay, no, but its the cheapest flight time I've ever got, and you have to start somewhere. It will be a nice way to get some extra time while I'm finishing up my instructor ratings. It (the SIC type) may also lead to some right seat time in my sim partners company Citation.

As for the paying for a rating; How does it make the company a bad company if they don't pay for your type rating. Does that mean its shameful to work for Southwest because you have to have the type before you can even interview? Isn't aviation all about trying to advance your skills and get better, or trying to make yourself as marketable as possible to the employers out there? What is the big deal in spending a little bit more money when you have already spent 50 - 60 k in flight training? A few more dollars to get a type to market yourself isn't necessarily a bad thing. Call me young and stupid, but just from talking to people, it is amazing the number of job opportunities that are out there if you want to go get them. I'm still trying to finish up my CFI's and some opportunities have already started coming, and if it wasn't for that extra training at FSI, etc those chances may not have happened for another year or two.

I just don't get how you can make someone feel like a "bad or disrespectful" person for trying to further advance their skills. After all in the FOI, one of the roles of a flight instructor is to continue your training (additional training).
 
It is all up to the individual actually!! What some guys think is not a big deal, is a HUGE DEAL to someone else! Paying for ratings has always been a hot topic in aviation!! And the line I think is drawn between the guys that can afford it, and the guys that cant! The companies don’t care how you get your ratings. . heck most honestly don’t care if they pay for it or you pay for it. . . They don’t know what is expected! Meaning, guy goes out and upgrades his P-baron (light twin) to a jet. He spends 1.5 on the jet, so if his pilot says, "hey boss, glad you got the jet, I'll go get my $25,000 type rating, be back in 2 weeks! Don’t worry about it, I’ll pay for it!" The boss thinks, that’s the norm.. He is certainly not going to argue with the guy!

Or on the other hand, boss get new $1.5 million dollar jet, and the pilot says, "you know in the expense of buying this jet, be sure to add $25,000 for my type rating as well as expenses. " Ok, says boss, (because he just spent, $2.5 MILLION on a plane. $25,000 is NOTHING FOR THIS GUY!!! If it is, he shouldn’t have a jet!!!!!

So guy wants you to go fly his plane . .. NOT YOUR PLANE!!! But HIS PLANE!!! And he owns your butt, you are on call for him, you keep up with everything on and about this plane, HECK YA!!! he pays for the rating!!

Now, you decide, you want to be a free lance CE-525 driver. Go free lance, put yourself out there. well, then I think you should pay for your own rating, because you are freelancing and putting yourself out there as a qualified CE-25 driver!

Also, if we in aviation say that in order to advance in this industry, you have to pay for it yourself across the board, guess what? Only the rich, or privileged get to do it!!! (or military guys) And that sucks!! it is hard enough for folks to break into this field, lets not make it any harder!

But dude, good for you!! Keep flying! Fly the piss out of that king air!!!! Keep networking and continue getting the ratings!!! You're already ahead of most of the guys out there, sounds like you wont have to instruct too long anyway!!!
 
jerrywhite7 said:
It is all up to the individual actually!! What some guys think is not a big deal, is a HUGE DEAL to someone else! Paying for ratings has always been a hot topic in aviation!! And the line I think is drawn between the guys that can afford it, and the guys that cant! The companies don’t care how you get your ratings. . heck most honestly don’t care if they pay for it or you pay for it. . . They don’t know what is expected! Meaning, guy goes out and upgrades his P-baron (light twin) to a jet. He spends 1.5 on the jet, so if his pilot says, "hey boss, glad you got the jet, I'll go get my $25,000 type rating, be back in 2 weeks! Don’t worry about it, I’ll pay for it!" The boss thinks, that’s the norm.. He is certainly not going to argue with the guy!

Or on the other hand, boss get new $1.5 million dollar jet, and the pilot says, "you know in the expense of buying this jet, be sure to add $25,000 for my type rating as well as expenses. " Ok, says boss, (because he just spent, $2.5 MILLION on a plane. $25,000 is NOTHING FOR THIS GUY!!! If it is, he shouldn’t have a jet!!!!!

So guy wants you to go fly his plane . .. NOT YOUR PLANE!!! But HIS PLANE!!! And he owns your butt, you are on call for him, you keep up with everything on and about this plane, HECK YA!!! he pays for the rating!!

Now, you decide, you want to be a free lance CE-525 driver. Go free lance, put yourself out there. well, then I think you should pay for your own rating, because you are freelancing and putting yourself out there as a qualified CE-25 driver!

Also, if we in aviation say that in order to advance in this industry, you have to pay for it yourself across the board, guess what? Only the rich, or privileged get to do it!!! (or military guys) And that sucks!! it is hard enough for folks to break into this field, lets not make it any harder!

But dude, good for you!! Keep flying! Fly the piss out of that king air!!!! Keep networking and continue getting the ratings!!! You're already ahead of most of the guys out there, sounds like you wont have to instruct too long anyway!!!
Click to expand...

Holy exclamation points batman.
 
Jerry,

I agree, I mean I wouldn't dare go out and pay for the 20,000 dollar rating that I got through FSI. I don't know if there is any normal guy out there that would pay that much. What I meant was, if you find somewhere that you can get a good price to get the type/training then why not. I just need to get these damn CFI's done. Getting Close!!
 
MavFlyer said:
Jerry,

I agree, I mean I wouldn't dare go out and pay for the 20,000 dollar rating that I got through FSI. I don't know if there is any normal guy out there that would pay that much. What I meant was, if you find somewhere that you can get a good price to get the type/training then why not. I just need to get these damn CFI's done. Getting Close!!
Click to expand...
Yes, there are people out there who will buy a $20K+ type rating to get a job. Reference my posts on my former copilot (not sure if it was in this thread or not that I was talking about the story or not, and too lazy to look).

jerrywhite7 said:
thanks for the input!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, you're right. (.)
Click to expand...
You're welcome... ;-)
 
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