Catalina BE-55 Crash

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And the media of course


Speaking of news article content now, was there something you didn’t like about that specific article?

The pilot of a twin-engine plane was not given clearance at Catalina Airport to take off shortly before the plane crashed about a mile away, killing all five on board, an airport authority said Thursday, Oct. 10.

The airport’s operating hours are 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. daily, but pilots can arrive and depart after 5 p.m. before sunset so long as they pre-arrange with airport management, the airport’s general manager, Carl True, said.

“He pre-arranged for his arrival after 5 p.m.,” True said, “but not for the takeoff and he was advised of that.”

The airport does not allow flights after sunset, due to the airport not being equipped for nighttime operations — including no runway lights setup. While the pilot was not given clearance, the move was not considered illegal, True said.

Is it the use of the word “clearance” instead of “permission”? The last sentence quoted above gives enough clarity for the non-aviation reader, I would think, to avoid the semantic error being detrimental to proper understanding of the situation.
 
Is it the use of the word “clearance” instead of “permission”? The last sentence quoted above gives enough clarity for the non-aviation reader, I would think, to avoid the semantic error being detrimental to proper understanding of the situation.
This falls under the category of "a thing everyone in Southern California knows that you aren't SUPPOSED to do," whichever way you want to phrase it.
 
No night ops for fixed wing, simply due to risk. You launch there at night, you have no return ability in the event of something going wrong. You can’t make Torrance after takeoff, and you’re going for a night swim in the Pacific, assuming you survive the ditching
 
No night ops for fixed wing, simply due to risk. You launch there at night, you have no return ability in the event of something going wrong. You can’t make Torrance after takeoff, and you’re going for a night swim in the Pacific, assuming you survive the ditching
I mean this is true very time I depart when the weather requires a takeoff alternate (1 hour, still air, one engine out) in my airliner too.
 
I mean this is true very time I depart when the weather requires a takeoff alternate (1 hour, still air, one engine out) in my airliner too.

True. But in this case; it’s a VMC return ability, or inability at night, as the case may be. I think because it’s VMC, there’s this false sense that they can make it back to the airport if need be. Which isn’t the case for this field. There’s not even an airport beacon on field.
 
I'm not entirely certain regarding the weather that night but l am familiar with flying into Catalina and if memory serves departure is always to the west. The place I used to rent airplanes from required a "checkout" with an instructor to take a plane across the 26 miles of water, and the airport was not the only peculiarity regarding flying there from Santa Monica, Burbank or Van Nuys. They wanted to make sure you comfortably knew how to operate through the VFR LAX corridor safely. Obviously I never flew to Catalina at night but I can imagine what the departure might've looked like. When I was still working on my PPL I had to do a few hours of dual night cross country so my instructor and I agreed to fly down to Palomar, land and then head back to Burbank late one night. The flight down in the 152 was spectacular with the lights from the urban sprawl spreading in all directions. I successfully navigated to and landed at Palomar at night with zero issues, I was kind of proud of myself. Here's where I suspect my instructor had a plan to humble me. As a student I'd draw up detailed flight plans using my E6-B, radials, winds and any other variable a 152 might encounter and it had to be approved by the instructor before we took off. Being full of myself that evening I stamped out my cigarette under my Nike shoe and suggested it was getting late and we ought to start heading home. I'm fairly certain I walked up to that 152 like a Spitfire pilot during the Battle of Britain. We started up, taxied out and took off to the west, my meticulous flight planning would take us over the beach and then intercept a radial a couple miles off shore that would lead us straight back to the LAX corridor and get us home. I was not training for my instrument rating, I was just checking boxes for my Private, in other words despite my fine motor skills and bravado and the fact that I had soloed I was not quite a pilot yet and I think my instructor wanted to hammer that point home. Everything was going perfectly, my trusty 152 was running perfect, the take-off was text book perfect and as we climbed we crossed the shoreline and it was as if someone tossed a blanket over the windscreen, there was no horizon or stars it was just black. I recall looking back through the back windows and feeling very melancholy about the lights behind me and being very uncertain about my future. And then I remembered I was not alone, my savior and I were actually rubbing shoulders, I quickly confessed my discomfort with our current situation. This is what leads me to believe he knew this was going to happen, he was just chilling and asked me to pay attention to the instruments and figure it out. I immediately threw my flight plan to the wind, slowly turned the airplane north and decided on a more acceptable course that would allow me to have the shoreline a bit closer as a reference as we traveled home.

It's a lot of words to say taking off to the west at night over the Pacific Ocean can be disconcerting and this person would not have had the benefit of a metropolis of lights behind him to give any reference. You can't see Hawaii from Catalina.
Am I reading this right? Your instructor let a student pilot flight into actual instrument conditions. Then allowed him to continue as the flying pilot?
 
Am I reading this right? Your instructor let a student pilot flight into actual instrument conditions. Then allowed him to continue as the flying pilot?

Do you find that odd for some reason ? My long ifr/xc was 3.3 TT and 1.6 was in actual (no foggles) IMC where I was the flying pilot. How else would someone get IFR experience without flying in it? Maybe Im missing something. I had my PPL but still an Instrument student.
 
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True. But in this case; it’s a VMC return ability, or inability at night, as the case may be. I think because it’s VMC, there’s this false sense that they can make it back to the airport if need be. Which isn’t the case for this field. There’s not even an airport beacon on field.
Just need one of those obnoxious light bars that all off readers put on their cars these days. They are as bright as the sun.
 
Am I reading this right? Your instructor let a student pilot flight into actual instrument conditions. Then allowed him to continue as the flying pilot?

CRQ, Palomar. Right on the coast. Night XC, if you take off on 24 going west, as soon as you cross the coastline, the night VFR will suddenly become seeing nothing, when the coastline passes behind you. Sounds like the CFI was allowing him to see that his best laid plan and routing he had devised, was more complex than he bargained for once entering over the ocean, even close to land.
 
Do you find that odd for some reason ? My long ifr/xc was 3.3 TT and 1.6 was in actual (no foggles) IMC where I was the flying pilot. How else would someone get IFR experience without flying in it? Maybe Im missing something. I had my PPL but still an Instrument student.
He was a student pilot, not a PPL.
 
CRQ, Palomar. Right on the coast. Night XC, if you take off on 24 going west, as soon as you cross the coastline, the night VFR will suddenly become seeing nothing, when the coastline passes behind you. Sounds like the CFI was allowing him to see that his best laid plan and routing he had devised, was more complex than he bargained for once entering over the ocean, even close to land.
So, is this situation that you describe more like a JFK Jr. situation? Flying over a body of water at night, moonless night in Jr's situation. Jr. was a PPL rated pilot, not IR and well, we all know what happened.
 
Speaking of news article content now, was there something you didn’t like about that specific article?



Is it the use of the word “clearance” instead of “permission”? The last sentence quoted above gives enough clarity for the non-aviation reader, I would think, to avoid the semantic error being detrimental to proper understanding of the situation.


Not given “clearance to takeoff” sounds like an official thing and a ATC violation. And this is my problem with your media grading system ranking this source as highly accurate and least biased.


Yeah, the bolded portion is the truth, buried deep in the bottom of the article. But the clickbait is the headline.


So is Avalon SXC a Class B, C, or D airport? Oh wait, no operating control tower? Then there was no “clearance for takeoff” needed. Did the media bother to explain if there was even a control tower on the field?


Airport management (now I’m picturing HOA leadership) can make all the rules they want. It’s a rule, not a FAR legality, and no “clearance” to take off was needed.




Goes back to my point, my SME is Aviation, and even these “accurate and least biased” news sites still manage to screw it up. So what other topics are they screwing up, that I’m not a SME on, and therefore don’t know? That’s why I have to take any article with a gain of salt.
 
He was a student pilot, not a PPL.
Ok...Going with that thought process....Suppose something happened...Who do you think would be responsible? The CFII, myself...both.... The fact that I had my PPL is irrelevant
PPL or not I was an instrument STUDENT and that seemed to be your shock. In the end, you can't get IFR experience without being in actual IMC.
 
Ok...Going with that thought process....Suppose something happened...Who do you think would be responsible? The CFII, myself...both.... The fact that I had my PPL is irrelevant
PPL or not I was an instrument STUDENT and that seemed to be your shock. In the end, you can't get IFR experience without being in actual IMC.
Young @knot4u was with his CFI, so that dulls the cut a bit. But in my inexperience of being an instructor, I'm not sure if a student pilot even with his instructor sitting tandem has the skills fly in those conditions. But Methuselah, I mean @knot4u is older, they did flight training different then, they do it today. You used to learn spin training in PPL. In today's one size fits all primary training world, I just I can't see this type of stuff happening as a student pilot. He survived to tell the tale. All's well that ends well. I guess my shock was that, that wouldn't probably happen in today's "big box" flight schools, with company written training lessons, that CFI's aren't allowed to deviate from. Strict six month accelerated training programs, And only being able to do x-countries to management/company approved airports.
 
Ok...Going with that thought process....Suppose something happened...Who do you think would be responsible? The CFII, myself...both.... The fact that I had my PPL is irrelevant
PPL or not I was an instrument STUDENT and that seemed to be your shock. In the end, you can't get IFR experience without being in actual IMC.
I got my PPL in Sept 2001. I remember learning about VOR's and radials. We flew off the TUS vortac, like once. Only as a brief introduction to VORTAC's, I remember him saying that it wasn't necessary to dive to deep into that stuff right then. As it wasn't on the checkride and that I'd learn more about it during IR. That said, I got my whopping .05 of actual in my logbook in SLC, not as a student pilot though. But during actual IFR training. Damn sure wouldn't have got it in Tucson, AZ.
 
I got my PPL in Sept 2001. I remember learning about VOR's and radials. We flew off the TUS vortac, like once. Only as a brief introduction to VORTAC's, I remember him saying that it wasn't necessary to dive to deep into that stuff right then. As it wasn't on the checkride and that I'd learn more about it during IR. That said, I got my whopping .05 of actual in my logbook in SLC, not as a student pilot though. But during actual IFR training. Damn sure wouldn't have got it in Tucson, AZ.

When I was still instructing I used to make sure all of my PPL students got a bit of time in actual. They can't do it while solo, but with a CFI (and I was a CFII also) in the other seat it's not a big deal... and it may save their ass if the accidentally wander into IMC on their own.
 
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