career in a regional??

[aloft]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why I said that. I know that I could make it on $32,000 with no problem, but I wouldn't want to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Betcha ya couldn't make it on $32k/yr with no problem in San Francisco today! I actually know one chick who lived pretty decently on $20k/yr in the '95-96 timeframe; shared a Russian Hill flat, lived in a city where owning a car is a supreme hassle--but then she was the type who NEVER had to buy a drink at a bar, and I'm sure she had her share of guys offering to buy her lunch or dinner...and breakfast too!

 

[derg]

I think the big problem when we argue about a 'living income' is position in life.

When I was in college, my first job was supposed to pay me $36,000/year as promised. As a college student looking at that, I thought "Holy crap! I'd better start shopping for a new car and some swanky digs in Concord where the aircraft was supposedly based"

I never earned that much and the job lasted about a New York minute, but for a fresh college graduate that seemed like a whole lot of loot. I was young, didn't have a car payment, had roommates and was used to spending about $20/week on groceries and would take out $20 on Friday night and still have some change left over on Sunday afternoon when I woke up for a Taco Bell bean burrito. That was good living because I was in my early 20's, never really had much money and had that parental 'safety net' if things got financially tight.

Things that are 'ok' when you're 20 and in college change as you progress thru life.

But as a person naturally matures and starts thinking about getting married, settling down, all of your priorities change and that perceived "liveable" $32K instantly vaporizes, especially when you start realizing your own mortality and need to save for retirement independently of what your employer promises -and- especially since any promises of actually seeing a social security check is laughable. If you do, it might cover your electric bill.

 

[kellwolf]

Another aspect is where you live or where you're willing to live. Airline pilots (for the most part) have an edge here since they can commute. Instead of just looking at the city you'd be based in (which would be good if you were reserve for about a year or two), you can look at cities where the commute wouldn't be too bad. For example, say you're based in ATL. You could live in MEM (or even better, northern Mississippi, cost of living is even less there) and commute. I've been getting by on less than $28K/yr between my wife and I for the past 7 years. A couple of years we didn't even crack $25K. I've been paying as I go for flight training, so I know it's do-able. We're waiting until I'm done with school to have kids, though. After I land a decent flying gig, I'd probably still buy store brand, even if I was making $100K/yr. Makes no sense to pay $3.50 for a 12-pack of Coke when you can get a case of Sam's Choice for less.

 

[DE727UPS]

"But as a person naturally matures and starts thinking about getting married, settling down, all of your priorities change"

Yeah...I'm 42 and well over six figures and wouldn't think of eating a Taco Bell bean burrito, but the number 11 combo with chicken is pretty good....

 

[Hollywood]

32K a year IS middle class in some places and GHETTO in others. i had a friend that lived in california making close to six figures and was living in a small apartment. he couldn't afford to buy a house! a fixer upper at that. where i'm from when you making close to six digits you have a nice home on some land, a nice car, and some toys. (boat,atv's,cottage, etc). 32K a year where i'm from is middle class to lower middle class but i can't imagine trying to live/raise a family on that in a desirable part of the country. like out west for example. you'd definatley be ghetto or at least living hand to mouth. i agree with doug. i was on a flight not to long ago talking to a guy that lives in the boston area. i asked him what the average price of an apartment was. he said i could get one in or around the boston area for a measly $2300/month. 1 BEDROOM!

 

[av8trxx]

I have seen three RJ captain retirements in two months. They guy I just flew with has "no interest in big airline flying anymore" and intends to stay a regional captain. He does OK and can support his other hobbies with his income, so why leave? The airline life is good to him, but not his priority anymore. I think that because of the times more and more will see their careers end with regionals. Besides, once you are making $100K and are tops on the seniority list and have the best schedules, it's a hard bit to swallow going to the bottom again The regional life is not the same as it was 20 years ago and is more suitable to a career these days after some tenure, even if starting pay still sucks.

[ QUOTE ]
Another fact - there are no poor people living in southern california! (at least not homeowners anyway.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. I think $20K on first year pay makes me fairly poor and I own my place. I bought it when I made $36K/yr. Now, one paycheck covers the payment. (Thank God I got it when I did as it's tripled in price!) I couldn't afford to rent an apartment across the street from my condo on my regional pay. Maybe I can go to the mall again after upgrade.....

 

[Minnesota_Flyer]

[ QUOTE ]
"But as a person naturally matures and starts thinking about getting married, settling down, all of your priorities change"

Yeah...I'm 42 and well over six figures and wouldn't think of eating a Taco Bell bean burrito, but the number 11 combo with chicken is pretty good....

[/ QUOTE ]

MMmmmmm. Hard shell taco supreme. **DROOL**

MF

 

[JEP]

White Castle. A Co-worker won 92 White Castle burgers and it turns out they were 92 doubles. We just demolished half of them. Mmmm. Got to run.

 

[Grabo172]

[ QUOTE ]
My perspective is that if I was stuck flying short routes domestically the rest of my career, I'd look elsewhere. I've got enormous domestic ops burn out.

And JT, six figures ain't what you think it is. It's median middle class, an average house in the burbs and maybe a car payment, but that's about it. But it's "a lot more" if you do the standard US-style of running up credit card debt and falling for the zero interest-zero down tomfoolery so many of us do.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would triple my measly navy salary, but of course to get there, I'd have to take a half pay cut for 2-3 years until I break even from what I make now...

Oh, the things I'd do with 6 figures!

 

[jtrain609]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, the things I'd do with 6 figures!

[/ QUOTE ]

I tell ya what dude. First you get the cash. Once you've got the cash, you get the khaki's. Once you get the khaki's, you get the chics. Oh yeah.

[/duff man voice off]

 

[Grabo172]

[ QUOTE ]

[/duff man voice off]

[/ QUOTE ]

[Homer Simpson voice on] First you get the sugar, then you get the money, then you get the power, then you get the women [Homer Simpson voice off]

No, but really, it's all a matter of perspective, to me 100K is major money, to others... oh, how would they survive.

Just think of the 12K a full time CFI gets (20K if they're lucky)!!! They better have a Sugar Daddy or a Sugar Mamma! (hopefully that's what my wife will be when I get out of the navy!)

 

[mtsu_av8er]

Take an 11 year old to the Orthodontist and let them tell you how much that one procedure is going to cost, and then tell me that $32,000 is enough.

Anybody replaced a transmission lately?

Know how much a broken leg costs?

 

[MQAAord]

[ QUOTE ]
Take an 11 year old to the Orthodontist and let them tell you h9ow much that one procedure is going to cost, and then tell me that $32,000 is enough.

Anybody replaced a transmission lately?

Know how much a broken leg costs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Orthodontist: $4000 (My actual orthodontics cost, circa 1987)

Transmission: $350 (Rebuild cost only, installed by my dad)

Broken Leg: Don't know

Answering questions on Jetcareers: Priceless

 

[mtsu_av8er]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Take an 11 year old to the Orthodontist and let them tell you h9ow much that one procedure is going to cost, and then tell me that $32,000 is enough.

Anybody replaced a transmission lately?

Know how much a broken leg costs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Orthodontist: $4000 (My actual orthodontics cost, circa 1987)

Transmission: $350 (Rebuild cost only, installed by my dad)

Broken Leg: Don't know

Answering questions on Jetcareers: Priceless

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome!!!!

 

[derg]

I live in a pretty nice neighborhood.

My next door neighbor? A mechanic.

No risk, home every night, 9 to 5, but I'm supposed to support the idea that flying around a $15,000,000 jet with a crapload of passengers somehow only warrants $30G's a year.

Sometimes my own users suprise me!

 

[Grumpy01]

I do not think that $30m a year should or should not be the salary for any pilot. I believe that 400M a year should not be the salary for a pilot.

I do however think that a salary of 60 - 120M per year depending on your position is fair.

I also have a big problem with the thought that just because there are 50-400 pax behind you that you [genaric] should be treated any differently. The same skills are required to fly 50 as are required to fly 400. The only difference is the amount of money the company makes.

The standard [well I have X number of lives hanging on every decision] is IMO a false indicator of responsibility.

Face it; from a 150 to a 757 there is only one person that you need to keep alive. [yourself]. If you do that everyone else will be OK. So the number of pax is not a factor except to the bottom line of the company.

Recieve a fair wage for your skills, but, continue to demand more for less and you sign your own furlough papers as the carrier goes down the drain.

 

[derg]

$400G's as a pilot. Kewl, where do I sign up.

So what, in your professional opinion, qualifies you to determine what a reasonable salary/wage is for a job you have no experience with?

Let's take sports for example. $20 zillion bucks for throwing around a basketball. But considering how many people MJ beat out to get to where he is, the level of professionalism he's expected to display, plus he sells a crapload of shoes for Nike, that $20 zillion MJ earns isn't all that crazy.

Basically, right now with wages, benefits, vacation and medical, I'm appreciably less than $1/ticket per hour.

It's a tremendous job with a lot of responsibility and the idea that I don't have 142 + 3 FA's + 2 pilots lives in my hands is silly. Flying, even at the airlines, is a lot more dangerous than the general public thinks and yes, it takes dedication, concentration and at times, a fantastic amount of decision making ability.

This is absolutely preposterous.

 

[aloft]

Correct me if I've misread you, but what you seem to be saying is that a) workers have no right to share in the fruits of increases in their own productivity, and b) compensation shouldn't be tied to the amount of responsibility one has.

Really?

 

[Grabo172]

[ QUOTE ]
I live in a pretty nice neighborhood.

My next door neighbor? A mechanic.

No risk, home every night, 9 to 5, but I'm supposed to support the idea that flying around a $15,000,000 jet with a crapload of passengers somehow only warrants $30G's a year.

Sometimes my own users suprise me!

[/ QUOTE ]

We're not saying (well I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not) that you or any airline pilot should make 32K, that's totally unreasonable! You are every bit worh 150K, 500K, 1Million (I wonder if Trump's pilot makes a million?)

What I am saying is that 100K+ is a real decent living, that I personally would consider to be a butt ton of money.

 

[Mr_Creepy]

Well to quote Chester Karras, you don't get earn what you deserve, but what you negoitiate (I get nightmares with that guy's face staring at me!)

For the record!

1) Airline Pilots deserve to be paid a lot more than they are getting.
2) I'm a republican. I admire anyone making what they deserve.
3) The industry has been "cheapened" by the false images that many flight schools promote, which I call "The Dream."
4) Airlines are capitalizing on "The Dream" and paying pilots less now than ever.

So in sumamry. The ideal situation would have professional pilots paid what they are worth - somewhere in the high 100s to mid 200s (I don't have any scientific rationale for that - it just seems right to me.)

Unfortunately, there are literally thousands of "300 hr wonders" out there willing to PAY for that seat. And the DCAs of the world are pumping them out every month.

So we have a reality check. If you can land the six figure pilot job, "Good on ya, mate!" (apologies to my Aussie friends.) I hope you keep it! Those jobs are much harder to come by these days.

If you can land a 60-70k gig flying an RJ you aren't doing that bad. Don't be an idiot like I was and leave a good paying RJ job for a bigger airplane UNLESS you are SURE the company is going to stay around.

I made a huge financial mistake leaving Mesa for Midway. Please feel free to learn from my mistakes.