Captains second hand smoke is killing me...

derg · Nov 14, 2009

MikeD said:
BTA, we know what weakness to exploit if you ever go to SERE school.

Boots boots boots marching in, marching in...

Mikey_G · Nov 14, 2009

MikeD said:
Exactly, that's why I added that to the end of my post above after reading your response. I agree that courtesy does go both ways. Just the heavy handed response from the "you WILL NOT smoke around me!!!!" poster's, won't work IMO.

I figured you and I were on the same page

Funny that you picked up on the SERE reference too.....

Oh the memories.

Best training I never want to do again.

Ian_J · Nov 14, 2009

MikeD said:
Funny that you picked up on the SERE reference too.....

I would recommend SERE to everyone out there just so I can laugh at them before they go. Embrace the suck! Don't we have some future SERE attendees on the board or did they already go? If they haven't gone yet, we should make a thread that scares the crap outta them.

MikeD · Nov 14, 2009

Ian J said:
I would recommend SERE to everyone out there just so I can laugh at them before they go. Embrace the suck! Don't we have some future SERE attendees on the board or did they already go? If they haven't gone yet, we should make a thread that scares the crap outta them.

And all those with Facebook/Twitter/Myspace profiles who are posting junkies......fuel for the fire up there!

Bumblebee · Nov 14, 2009

I've been to SERE school...(Warner Springs) :bandit:

I do not agree that smoking in the car is acceptable. Does he smoke in the aircraft?

The rental car is your workspace as well. I do not agree that the rights of one outweigh the rights of others. If you are performing a habit that is painful to me, should I just have to suck it up? What if I like spitting tobacco, and it hits you? Is that the same as having a noxious substance hit me in the eyes, nose and throat?

You should have a respectful conversation with him, and ask him to get his nicotine on board before he is in a confined space with you.

If he does not smoke in the airplane, then he can wait during the ride to the hotel. Anything less is being disrespectful to your work environment.

Tell him that you can stop as much as necessary to let him smoke on the longer rides.

subpilot · Nov 14, 2009

If it was the Captain's personal car and off the clock then I would agree that he has the right to smoke in it but with it being a rental and you are both on the clock I would say that you are still in a work environment and smoking should not be allowed if you protest. I also am quit sure that almost all rental car companies prohibit smoking in the cars these days so he is also violating the rental agreement.
I actually get an allergic reaction to cigarette smoke. My skin turns red and starts to itch really bad so I would have a huge problem with this situation.

///AMG · Nov 14, 2009

Real pilots dip instead of smoke......tell him that. Or that he can keep up his girly european habits.....his choice

oh wait...this is your Captain? Sad....I guess you could have a habit of carrying around a leaky propane bottle

FlyChicaga · Nov 14, 2009

Mix some weed in with his cigarette tobacco. Then, call the FAA from a pay phone. Problem solved. No more smoking, and you get an upgrade.

Do I even need it? :sarcasm:

subpilot · Nov 14, 2009

When he smokes, laugh at him and when he ask you why you're laughing tell him that he smokes like a girl. Do that everytime he lights up and eventually he will stop smoking around you.

ahmed · Nov 14, 2009

I love how all the smokers are getting defensive and calling BTA a •...

Nigel Croker · Nov 14, 2009

ahmed said:
I love how all the smokers are getting defensive and calling BTA a •...

its because everyone talks about wanting smokers to have courtesy, but they dont want to show the same. I dont smoke anymore, but I used to and I can tell you some non smokers are just plain d--cks.....

WacoFan · Nov 14, 2009

ahmed said:
I love how all the smokers are getting defensive and calling BTA a •...

I didn't call him a •. I encouraged him to start smoking. Why is nobody getting on the "start smoking" bandwagon? I think it is an excellent idea, plus I get a referral fee from RJ Reynolds and Altria for converting a non-smoker.

spbrian · Nov 14, 2009

MikeD said:
Umm. Smokers have a right to smoke. One always has the option to leave. Now if he was following you around and blowing smoke in your face when you were attempting to leave, that's a different story.

I'm not a smoker at all, but I disagree with "smoke free" laws, simply due to my being someone who doesn't like more and more laws being created to "protect us". If a private owner wants to make a restaurant, for example, smoke-free, then that's up to them. But there shouldn't be laws created for that purpose.

Now, this doesn't keep you from asking in the form that mikeyG above stated........a tactful request.

I live in Oregon but spend not enough time at home, doing that I spend a lot of time in other states with different laws. I used to not notice going into a bar and coming out smelling like a cig, after the no smoking indoor laws were passed in Oregon a couple years ago I started to really notice. It bugs me so much that even after a few minutes I can smell the smoke smell on me and it truly does bug me so much that I have to take a shower immediately.

Anymore if I go into a smoking allowed bar after a half hour in there I come out and all i do all night is cough and hack, typically for a day. I have noticed it so much that anymore I will not go into an establishment that doesnt have at the minimum a decent non-smoking area.

If I am in somebody's personal car or personal house then that is just something that I deal with, in any public place I deal with it. To me a rental car is not a public place.

My five cents from a non smoker.

Bumblebee · Nov 14, 2009

Nigel Croker said:
its because everyone talks about wanting smokers to have courtesy, but they dont want to show the same. I dont smoke anymore, but I used to and I can tell you some non smokers are just plain d--cks.....

The difference is, a non-smoker sitting next to you is not emitting a noxious chemical (normally). A smoker, by merely enjoying his/her habit is, in fact, emitting a noxious chemical. For some people cigarette smoke feels like an assault of the senses.

Putting aside the often overemphasised health risks, the mere fact that you can do something to me physically which is against my will is a violation of my rights.

BTAcola · Nov 14, 2009

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ther; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1610611985 1073750139 0 0 159 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin-top:0in; margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:10.0pt; margin-left:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> First of all- I will NOT start smoking. I am a very courteous NON smoker if you will. Just because someone is smoking, I don’t run up to them and tell them they are polluting my air and they need to VACATE THIS SECTOR IMMEDIATELY (Chris Farley quote anyone?)… no... Doesn’t work that way… I AGREE>. NON SMOKER or SMOKER- everybody has the same rights.. They have the right to smoke, and I have the right NOT to smoke.
However- there is a fine line where my health should not suffer because of YOUR choice to smoke. In the case where it is in the same car- I used a bad example- we just don’t go 5miles and that’s it, we both like to see the city a bit where we are. So, it’s more like, 5hrs a trip we spend in the car in a city. I said 5minutes, to give reference that he will literally smoke one cig and use the end of it to start the other… it’s literally just like that.
I do think some of the responses on here are pretty funny, the gas mask or just buying him a truck TON of cigs to help my upgrade time (as sad as that is)… but... still funny none the less.
This thread was more of a… ask the smokers and NON smokers... what would be appropriate to say to the CA after already confronting him. From the looks of it, due to it being a cake job, this seems like an END CONFLICT right now. Have not confronted him more than what was a few days ago- and I do not want to compromise what I have going right now- so, later on down the road once I get to know him better, I’ll take pictures of the gas mask IF I get one and post them.

Yes- I do think it’s great that people are calling me a • because I do not wish to risk my health, nor my job because of someone else being inconsiderate of my RIGHT to not SMOKE. So please continue to call me a name because you cannot properly express yourself.
SubPilot- If I was to call him a girl- I’m pretty sure he would snap my neck- ha ha. Not quite that bad- but it would be a very heated discussion and I do not want to risk what we got going already. Yes- we are on the clock 24/7 so in or out of the car I’m still “on duty” if you will cause we are salaried.
To the OP that suggested he smoked in the plane?- NEGATIVE- he does not/WILL NOT, NO WAY!
MikeD- whose to say I have not been to SERE school or a form of one? Also- one does not ALWAYS have the ability to LEAVE that room, IE- CAR, to lunch/dinner/airport/office/sightseeing/ etc etc.. this is true what you are saying that I am not being FORCED to go to these events, however, If I value my job, which I hold in high regard, then I should do what the 2/3<sup>rds </sup>of this post say I should do and that’s stop being a • and deal with it. So… your “more and more laws to protect us theory” in my opinion is not accurate. This is not a Homeland Security act, nor is it a freedoms of information act. Does it infringe on your RIGHTS to smoke- you bet it does, but keep in mind, that you will (even though you specifically are NOT a smoke) have to take your smoke to a designated place that does not affect others. Its been tested and proved over and over again, that smoke-first or second hand, has many health consequences. I am not stating that there should be FREE FOR ALL RULE- if you don’t like my smoking, then leave the room type of thing, I’m saying there has to be some give and take. The current method of smokers are bad people, they should be punshined etc etc, I DO DISAGREE with, it should be fair to all parties here. So that is not what I’m protesting. I’m protesting that his smoke is causing me headaches in the car, with or without the window down when its snowing or raining. I’m protesting that I have no option to talk to the chief pilot about this because the guy I fly with>> IS THE FREAGGIN CHIEF PILOT, and he’s known the owner for YEARS… so going to the owner simply is not an option either.
So maybe, now is the time for someone to respond to me and say- I shouldn’t have posted anything in the first place if I already knew the outcome and there was nothing I can do about it. IM A •! There we have it folks…
MikeyG: your post…
You need to grow some balls and talk to the man a bit more assertively.

"Look (captain, capt, sir, boss, man, guy, jerk, jerkface mcjerkins), I like you, I think you're a great CA who treat's me fairly, however, your chain smoking has raised concerns about my health as well as yours. If you can live without smoking for the X amount of hours we are flying together, you can wait until reaching the hotel smoking area. I'm not asking you to quit all together, it's your life, your body, however, I just want the smoking in the car to stop..."<o></o>
<o

> </o

>-this is pretty much what I already said- and he still smokes. Let me reiterate, this is a GREAT GREAT JOB, it’s this one instance that is bugging me and I was looking for some support from fellow pilots that have been in this situation before. I’m also pretty sure my balls are much bigger than yours. I often find that the water in the urinal is cold and has cave like depths as well.
<o

> </o

>In the moonlight- Looking back at this thread, I can CLEARLY see, that I am in the position of NO POSTION. So I will quietly wait for time to pass and hope (not in the Obama sense of things), that the current situation will rectify itself, either by MY attitude towards the smoking, or by having another come to Jesus talk to try and make things better.

MikeD · Nov 14, 2009

BTAcola said:
MikeD- whose to say I have not been to SERE school or a form of one? Also- one does not ALWAYS have the ability to LEAVE that room, IE- CAR, to lunch/dinner/airport/office/sightseeing/ etc etc.. this is true what you are saying that I am not being FORCED to go to these events, however, If I value my job, which I hold in high regard, then I should do what the 2/3<sup>rds </sup>of this post say I should do and that’s stop being a • and deal with it. So… your “more and more laws to protect us theory” in my opinion is not accurate. This is not a Homeland Security act, nor is it a freedoms of information act. Does it infringe on your RIGHTS to smoke- you bet it does, but keep in mind, that you will (even though you specifically are NOT a smoke) have to take your smoke to a designated place that does not affect others. Its been tested and proved over and over again, that smoke-first or second hand, has many health consequences. I am not stating that there should be FREE FOR ALL RULE- if you don’t like my smoking, then leave the room type of thing, I’m saying there has to be some give and take. The current method of smokers are bad people, they should be punshined etc etc, I DO DISAGREE with, it should be fair to all parties here. So that is not what I’m protesting. I’m protesting that his smoke is causing me headaches in the car, with or without the window down when its snowing or raining. I’m protesting that I have no option to talk to the chief pilot about this because the guy I fly with>> IS THE FREAGGIN CHIEF PILOT, and he’s known the owner for YEARS… so going to the owner simply is not an option either.
So maybe, now is the time for someone to respond to me and say- I shouldn’t have posted anything in the first place if I already knew the outcome and there was nothing I can do about it. IM A •! There we have it folks…
.

Serious hat on here.

You may notice that nowhere did I judge you or call you any sort of name or inference, jokingly or otherwise. And you may also notice that I did, when speaking seriously, note that there has to be a compromise of some kind, as courtesy indeed goes both ways......that is, from him to you, as well as in reverse.

My answer on people being able to smoke or not was in response to another poster and was really a separate conversation from what your situation.

You should post any question you like here, not feel that you can't. No, it has nothing to do with name calling nor should it. Nor does it have to do with gas masks, quitting jobs, attendance of SERE school, etc . My serious answer to you still is one of this: ask the guy, as a courtesy, if he could refrain from smoking when you two are in the car....heck, make up an excuse if you must....allergic to smoke or something. But bring it up tactfully as a respectful request if you could get some professional courtesy of not having to have to deal with smoke in close quarters. Thats really all that can be done. Either he's a compromising person, or he isn't. As you say you two tend to get along in all other ways, this shouldn't be any different. How he responds to that request will show you whether he's a respectful person or not. I realize that you're only asking him to refrain for certain periods of close quarters, and to me that's reasonable to ask, again from a courtesy perspective.

Have you tried it that way? Would you be willing?

BTAcola · Nov 14, 2009

MikeD said:
Serious hat on here.

You may notice that nowhere did I judge you or call you any sort of name or inference, jokingly or otherwise. And you may also notice that I did, when speaking seriously, note that there has to be a compromise of some kind, as courtesy indeed goes both ways......that is, from him to you, as well as in reverse.

My answer on people being able to smoke or not was in response to another poster and was really a separate conversation from what your situation.

You should post any question you like here, not feel that you can't. No, it has nothing to do with name calling nor should it. Nor does it have to do with gas masks, quitting jobs, attendance of SERE school, etc . My serious answer to you still is one of this: ask the guy, as a courtesy, if he could refrain from smoking when you two are in the car....heck, make up an excuse if you must....allergic to smoke or something. But bring it up tactfully as a respectful request if you could get some professional courtesy of not having to have to deal with smoke in close quarters. Thats really all that can be done. Either he's a compromising person, or he isn't. As you say you two tend to get along in all other ways, this shouldn't be any different. How he responds to that request will show you whether he's a respectful person or not. I realize that you're only asking him to refrain for certain periods of close quarters, and to me that's reasonable to ask, again from a courtesy perspective.

Have you tried it that way? Would you be willing?

Yes- I will give this try another go. Thank you for your clarification- I was not sure if you were in reference to me or someone else, so I responded as if It were I. But thanks, I hope it helps others as well in my situation.

YES SMOKERS HAVE RIGHT TO SMOKE.. YES NON SMOKERS HAVE RIGHT-NOT to SMOKE...

But where is the fine line between the two- so that both people are able to enjoy their rights without infringing on the other persons?

MikeD · Nov 14, 2009

BTAcola said:
Yes- I will give this try another go. Thank you for your clarification- I was not sure if you were in reference to me or someone else, so I responded as if It were I. But thanks, I hope it helps others as well in my situation.

YES SMOKERS HAVE RIGHT TO SMOKE.. YES NON SMOKERS HAVE RIGHT-NOT to SMOKE...

But where is the fine line between the two- so that both people are able to enjoy their rights without infringing on the other persons?

I fully agree. It's indeed a compromise. You sound like you're willing to compromise, and are just asking for consideration in the case of close quarters. The wild card is how much he's willing to compromise.....and that'll likely show his character type. It also depends what style of tact you do. Saying nothing will keep you miserable, going heavy handed will make him defensive (or he may be one of those that respect it, I don't know without meeting the guy). But I still think that if, as you say, you two get along in all other situations, then this one shouldn't be too different.

greaper007 · Nov 14, 2009

You have a tough one here. I hate being direct with people in power but this isn't the 60s. There's a good reason we have laws against smoking. 40% of cancers are caused by tobacco use (sourced from an NPR health report a few weeks ago). No, second hand smoke isn't exaggerated. You have enough crap to worry about hurting you in an airplane, something as backwards as smoking shouldn't be one of them. If the dude want's to have the lung capacity of someone that probably can't even run a mile and look 20 years older than his real age, that's his problem. When you guys are in a company car though his smoking is your problem.

Rant over.

I think you just need to be direct and consistent with him. Say "I like you and I understand that you have a physical need to smoke, but it's really been getting to me. Can we make some sort of compromise about when you smoke?" I find that when you're honest and direct with people and try to understand their side you can usually win them over.

Mikey_G · Nov 14, 2009

BTAcola said:
<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CUser%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><link rel="themeData" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CUser%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx"><link rel="colorSchemeMapping" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CUser%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml"><style>  </style>I’m also pretty sure my balls are much bigger than yours. I often find that the water in the urinal is cold and has cave like depths as well.<o></o>

I'm not one to measure nut sack size over the internet, but whatever. I am just a crusty NCO that is offering advice on an internet forum. As a smoker, I can understand where you are coming from, personally, I will go out of my way to make a non smoker happy. Good luck trying to get him to stop.

As a side note, I don't even wanna know where that last sentence came from. (my sadistic side says yea, I want to know, but no, I am good

)

Captains second hand smoke is killing me...

Apparently a "terse" writer

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