CALL TO ACTION: Support a rewrite of Part 135 duty and rest rules

[CFI A&P]

If the FAA enforces with regards to operators then they will also have to enforce with regards to pilots. Something about an operator may not assign and a pilot may not accept or some such...

We're not clean here in this people. Yes, education is certainly the key. The next step is for all pilots to grow a backbone on this subject since the likelihood of a 135 union doesn't exist.

Since it's not likely that operators won't be made an example of, perhaps a few pilots should. Maybe then we'll stop working for the dirt bags and pay attention to what we're supposed to be doing.

That's exactly the issue. Pilots are mutually responsible for this problem. Don't work there or be submissive and part of problem. This is what I explained to every commercial student I ever had or have ever talked to. What's that thing from the FOI - something about rule of primacy...

 

[tlove482]

To all the people that say that enforcement is the only problem: what will simplifying the rule hurt? If the rule is simple, it makes it easier to enforce because there is no gray area.

 

[gotWXdagain]

If the FAA enforces with regards to operators then they will also have to enforce with regards to pilots. Something about an operator may not assign and a pilot may not accept or some such...

We're not clean here in this people. Yes, education is certainly the key. The next step is for all pilots to grow a backbone on this subject since the likelihood of a 135 union doesn't exist.

Since it's not likely that operators won't be made an example of, perhaps a few pilots should. Maybe then we'll stop working for the dirt bags and pay attention to what we're supposed to be doing.

So throwing a few pilots under the bus because for decades management has been getting away with coercing the pilots to break regs is what you're advocating for?

 

[averettpilot]

So throwing a few pilots under the bus because for decades management has been getting away with coercing the pilots to break regs is what you're advocating for?

Yeah, pretty much. If that's what it will take for pilots to start standing up for themselves. I'd prefer the FAA go after the operators, but like you said, decades....I'm not holding my breath, so it's up to me (us).

 

[gotWXdagain]

Yeah, pretty much. If that's what it will take for pilots to start standing up for themselves. I'd prefer the FAA go after the operators, but like you said, decades....I'm not holding my breath, so it's up to me (us).

Just making sure we know whose back you (don't) have.

 

[Inverted]

 

[averettpilot]

Ok, before we go crazy here, do you or do you not agree that the PIC has a responsibility to follow the regs as written and interpreted?

 

[Inverted]

So does an SIC. But why punish pilots that are being subjected to an industry where they have no choice but to take crap jobs for either low pay or sketchy reg following? How about we put the fire to companies that don't follow the regs? Doesn't that make more sense? Why ruin a pilots career because you would rather go after them than the company?

If you made the regs more clearly defined so they were more easily enforced then the problem takes care of its self. If you go after pilots and start handing out violations, the companies will just find another set of pilots


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[averettpilot]

To be clear as well, of course I side with pilots on this. I am one and I've been at a 24/7 company (and I left within a month of them doing it that way). But I bang my head against the wall emoji too when I run across pilots at training and on the road who just shrug it off when I find out they're on call 24/7. It's illegal and they all know it. That makes them just as guilty as the operator. I have no sympathy for them if they choose to break the law. That's my point.

 

[averettpilot]

I guess it all boils down to choice. You don't have to work for a dirt ball company. Find a new segment to work in.

 

[gotWXdagain]

I guess it all boils down to choice. You don't have to work for a dirt ball company. Find a new segment to work in.

That, or you could make enough noise at your operator that they do it on their own and then you actually make the business better, for everyone.

 

[mshunter]

That, or you could make enough noise at your operator that they do it on their own and then you actually make the business better, for everyone.

At 99% of operators, you'd end up on the street. I have to agree with @averettpilot on this one. A few people will need to be made very public examples of, along with the company they work for. It sucks, but that's what would happen at a 121 shop. Why should a 135 shop be any different.

 

[gotWXdagain]

At 99% of operators, you'd end up on the street. I have to agree with @averettpilot on this one. A few people will need to be made very public examples of, along with the company they work for. It sucks, but that's what would happen at a 121 shop. Why should a 135 shop be any different.

If the "street pilot" then takes a trip to the FSDO and nothing changes, a trip to the unemployment office might do the trick. The operator would be required to pay the pilot a large percentage of their former salary to sit on their [you can totally say] ass in perpetuity and not fly their airplanes.

 

[averettpilot]

If the "street pilot" then takes a trip to the FSDO and nothing changes, a trip to the unemployment office might do the trick. The operator would be required to pay the pilot a large percentage of their former salary to sit on their [you can totally say] ass in perpetuity and not fly their airplanes.

Not really, or at least that wasn't my experience. I made noise to the CP and DO and was told this is how we do it, and you're the only pilot bringing this up, and yada yada yada. So I left. Asked the FSDO about and was told there was nothing they could do, or would do I guess is more accurate. Easier for me to leave and work for a company whose integrity is more closely aligned with my own and encourage other pilots to do the same. If those companies cease to exist, I have no problem not flying.

 

[gotWXdagain]

Not really, or at least that wasn't my experience. I made noise to the CP and DO and was told this is how we do it, and you're the only pilot bringing this up, and yada yada yada. So I left. Asked the FSDO about and was told there was nothing they could do, or would do I guess is more accurate. Easier for me to leave and work for a company whose integrity is more closely aligned with my own and encourage other pilots to do the same. If those companies cease to exist, I have no problem not flying.

And left the operator to keep on keeping on dogging it to other pilots.

 

[averettpilot]

And left the operator to keep on keeping on dogging it to other pilots.

Again, I have no sympathy for you if you know the regs and break them. I'm all for change and going after operators, but you have to remove yourself from the problem first. Are you saying pilots are without responsibility in this?

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Again, I have no sympathy for you if you know the regs and break them. I'm all for change and going after operators, but you have to remove yourself from the problem first. Are you saying pilots are without responsibility in this?

And this, kids, is why we need unions in aviation. Should not have to risk your job being FAR compliant.

 

[averettpilot]

And this, kids, is why we need unions in aviation. Should not have to risk your job being FAR compliant.

I'd be all for that. We have no other recourse other than to bring it up with management or leave when they fail to care.

 

[gotWXdagain]

I'd be all for that. We have no other recourse other than to bring it up with management or leave when they fail to care.

My method seems to be working where I'm at.

 

[averettpilot]

My method seems to be working where I'm at.

What exactly is your method?