Broken Airnet Crew in DAY - Pilot Pushing

I don't think it was this pilot, but the only times I've heard of someone getting a talking to for writting something up is when they told ATC they had something broken, then flew it three more legs before downing it, and someone who wrote up an airplane because they didn't know how to work the equipment.
 
Thats great and all but flying around a 30 year old jet using your rational I could ground an airplane everyday.

Beg to differ. I fly the same type aircraft you do and my department prides themselves on zero deferrals.

If it's broke it's broke. I didn't write the FARs. If management wants to change them they can call Washington.
 
If it can't be MEL'd then the plane has to be grounded, it isn't airworthy.

You'd really have a problem with that if you were a chief pilot?:rolleyes: Sure glad you aren't my chief pilot. If you don't want planes grounded with a broken CHT gage, figure out how to get the CHT on the MEL.

FWIW, I've never heard of anything like that happening here. Not saying it doesn't or hasn't, but I haven't heard about it. I've grounded plenty of airplanes for "little" stuff. If it ain't airworthy, it ain't airworthy. The fed that ramps you and starts some certificate action against you for flying an un-airworthy aircraft won't care that it's just a "little thing".

I guess I value my certificates more than some.

I'm going to guess that it ended up not being a big deal. If it was, I've been hanging out since Wednesday and could be in Dayton in...30 minutes(?) with a replacement airplane. There are others here as well, even earlier in the week.

-mini

If it is a "legit" item write it up and get it deferred and fly the plane. If it can't be mel'd then get it fixed. But a PIC has to use sound judgement of what to write up. Mel's aren't all encompassing and you can nitpick almost any plane, even new, and ground it.

I know in the Saab the chart holder, if written up, is a no go item. Write it up and cancel a flight you definately will be doing a Chief Pilot Carpet Dance.

I bet if you searched hard enough on any of the airliners you could find a missing or damanged decal or a paint issue to put in the book.

Captains that tend to write up too many nusance items tend not to last too long.
 
That is what I'm getting at.
I've never seen our MX make pilots fly aircraft on an MEL more then a day until it can make it to a MX base. Pretty rare for a freight company.
Am I going to write up the airplane if the back light on the twist dial clock burns out? Or if the chart clip on the yoke is broken? The velco on the jump seat is worn out and the cushion won't stay in place?
No one ever told me not to write these things up. But do you really think I'm going to do that away from a MX base? Please!
 
Okay, seriously, was this at the end of the day? Was there another plane there he could swap for?

Who cares? The airplane was broken. Period. End of story.

If I were a chief pilot and someone wanted to ground an airplane somewhere because of a CHT gauge, I think I would have a little talk with him too.

Then I hope you never become a CP. If an airplane is broken, you write it up. Period. If it's deferrable, then it's an issue of just a bit of paperwork. If it's not deferrable, then it shouldn't be flying. This really isn't hard to understand.
 
You laugh but half the time the Radar's are written up it's because its a new hire that doesn't have a clue how to use it.

Probably has more to do with the training program (ours is equally as bad in that area) than the new hire.
 
Probably has more to do with the training program (ours is equally as bad in that area) than the new hire.
I dunno man - as a product of their training program I'll admit the radar instruction is a little basic, but they give you the info you need to know. They use that famous radar expert guy (forgot his name) as a primary source. I'm no genius and I managed to work the radar well enough.

As you know, some people manage to pass the tests yet just don't listen or retain well. One night I ran into a guy I went through Chieftain training with. He was sitting on the wing with the aircraft logbook out and was clearly confused by something. He saw me and asked "how in the heck do you do the weight and balance on one of these things?"

"Um... like they taught us in class..."
 
Who cares? The airplane was broken. Period. End of story.



Then I hope you never become a CP. If an airplane is broken, you write it up. Period. If it's deferrable, then it's an issue of just a bit of paperwork. If it's not deferrable, then it shouldn't be flying. This really isn't hard to understand.
I don't understand this logic. As a CP, I'm constantly mixing it up with our maintenance folks who are trying to find a way around the MEL. Fix it dammit! If the pilot thinks the aircraft isn't safe then the CP should back him up 100%. Just my 2 cents.
 
Yeah we had Archie's video too, but I'll be honest I doubt anyone actually adsorbed it. I know I didn't. Too much other stuff to think about at that time, in addition to it being shown in a dim room after lunch...It kinda got pushed into the "nice to know" column vs. the "need to know" column :D.
 
Yeah we had Archie's video too, but I'll be honest I doubt anyone actually adsorbed it. I know I didn't. Too much other stuff to think about at that time, in addition to it being shown in a dim room after lunch...It kinda got pushed into the "nice to know" column vs. the "need to know" column :D.
I hear ya - the only thing that made me know to pay attention were the discussions about it on JC.
 
When I was doing night freight, there was a lot of pressure to get the checks there on time. If you did not deliver reliably, it was not uncommon to be berated, publicly, in the halls of the offices or you were released in the form of failed checkrides. But this has been some time ago...so probably a whole new crew there now that sounds much more lenient in these regards. I think the DO at that time is now dead...or so I've heard.

I don't remember ever writing anything up until the end of the day or not flying because of bad weather. Of course a couple of engine failures stopped the show once or twice.
 
For those of you who are going to use common sense and realize that no airplane can be perfect, when you're flying old airplanes, there is a list of priorities that you should think about if you don't have an MEL.

1. Powerplants
Anything wrong at all with the go-makers and its time to squawk it.
2. Airframes/flight Controls
That's common sense, don't fly a bent airplane.
3. Instrumentation Critical to flight
This is where the grey area really begins, because you could call an EGT/CHT critical, or you could not, where as an attitude indicator that refused to become erect for IFR, or a bum altimeter would be an instant grounding.
4. Extemperaneous Stuff
Chart holders, sun visors, etc.

I don't condone not grounding an airplane because you find something wrong, but I don't think an airplane necessarily needs to be held on the ground if an EGT is busted.
 
I have never ever seen our management pressure pilots into anything. Infact many of the guys that have been here for a few years think they are too conservative. The new CEO will have NO say on how we fly every night.
Once you guys get out of the airlines you'll see it's a different atmosphere.

That was actually a compliment to the staff and management at Airnet since we haven't heard too many nightmarish tales out of people like yourself Mike.

And once you guys get out of the airlines. . .well. . .I suppose. . .the clock is ticking.
 
So PCL are you seriously going to writup a decal that has been smeared badly by wear and tear and ground the airplane....YGTBKM
 
So PCL are you seriously going to writup a decal that has been smeared badly by wear and tear and ground the airplane....YGTBKM

Yes, I have had mx come out to replace the reflective tape on the APU Fire Control door on the tail of the 717 when it was mostly worn off. It's a required item. Are you saying that you willfully ignore regulations? I hope not.
 
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