Blimp Questions

[KSCessnaDriver]

What is the top speed?
What kind of range do you guys have?
Are any of you guys flying the blimp in Atlanta this week?

I was in Atlanta with the MetLife blimp you saw. We were up at LZU, but now we're in Mobile, Alabama. As to range, 600 miles with favorable wind, maybe a little more.

How do you know when to add helium to the envelope? How often is that done?

What is the life-limiting number for blimps (e.g., cycles, years, time between windstorms)?

Life limit for blimps is sort of like a fabric airplane. There is a test patch that is looked at and well, the mechanics do their thing with it. Helium is added when needed for a variety of reasons, to add to lift, to increase purity, etc...

Yes, we have a Vmo. It's 48 knots indicated on the one I'm currently on, and 52KIAS on our Rotax models.

It is extremely difficult to exceed Vmo in these things. In fact, I'm really not sure how you would be able to be in a situation where it could be exceeded. Even at max power you're usually nowhere close to Vmo. Even in a steep descent, your pressure limits would be exceeded before reaching Vmo.

Just like any aircraft, structural damage is a possibility above Vmo.

In airships, airspeed isn't really as important as it is in airplanes. We are much more concerned with pressure control and management, as well as static condition.

Planning is much more detailed in these things than anything I've ever done in airplanes.

Maybe in your A60+ you can't go beyond Vne, but it's easily doable in a A60R (MetLife Snoopy 1 & 2 & Japan).

I want to know what sporting events you have been above Apophis? And is it feasible to break it down to ship it from NYC to LA?

I've done MLB, NFL and Golf in less than 6 months with being at the company. Shipping is crazy expensive, not to mention helium cost.

 

[spoolinup22]

What's this Vmo speed you've been talking about? Also, got any operating handbooks you could share? That would be a great read!

 

[X-Forces]

Maybe in your A60+ you can't go beyond Vne, but it's easily doable in a A60R (MetLife Snoopy 1 & 2 & Japan).

So if that's the case, is it really a VNE?

If you can exceed it with ease in your airship, and it would seem as if it doesn't cause any real issues, what is the VNE function?

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

What's this Vmo speed you've been talking about? Also, got any operating handbooks you could share? That would be a great read!

Honestly, the best thing to read is the old Goodyear Airship manual. Not many floating around, but I've seen bits and pieces of it here and there. Vne is a better term than Vmo (the whole mach thing and airships is kind of funny). Vne is like any Vne, never exceed speed.

So if that's the case, is it really a VNE?

If you can exceed it with ease in your airship, and it would seem as if it doesn't cause any real issues, what is the VNE function?

Yeah, its a limitation, just like on a 172 or anything else. Point the nose down and leave the power in on a 172 and you'll shoot up beyond Vne quickly. It's a limitation on the airframe from a load standpoint. It's not a physical airplane can't fly any faster than this speed.

 

[spoolinup22]

Your company doesn't hand out any .pdf or any other type of files? I'll start searching for the GoodYear!

 

[Apophis]

Maybe in your A60+ you can't go beyond Vne, but it's easily doable in a A60R (MetLife Snoopy 1 & 2 & Japan).

Hmm. Didn't know the A60R was much different in that respect. Haven't flown the R yet though. In the + model, the highest IAS I've seen is a hair over 40, and we were blazing ( heh heh, a relative term, of course) at 2600RPM with a headwind trying to beat some weather into Solberg, NJ.

 

[Apophis]

Honestly, the best thing to read is the old Goodyear Airship manual. Not many floating around, but I've seen bits and pieces of it here and there. Vne is a better term than Vmo (the whole mach thing and airships is kind of funny). Vne is like any Vne, never exceed speed.

Yeah, the whole Vmo thing is kind of silly. Just going by what the AFM says, though.

 

[X-Forces]

Yeah, its a limitation, just like on a 172 or anything else. Point the nose down and leave the power in on a 172 and you'll shoot up beyond Vne quickly. It's a limitation on the airframe from a load standpoint. It's not a physical airplane can't fly any faster than this speed.

So I think I follow you now, I just misunderstood earlier. What you are saying is that you can cause structural damage by exceeding your Vne, and it IS possible for you to exceed it in the A60R, whereas Apophis implied that exceeding the Vne, or Vmo, was not possible is the A60+

All makes sense now.

 

[Apophis]

So I think I follow you now, I just misunderstood earlier. What you are saying is that you can cause structural damage by exceeding your Vne, and it IS possible for you to exceed it in the A60R, whereas Apophis implied that exceeding the Vne, or Vmo, was not possible is the A60+

All makes sense now.

I didnt say it isn't possible, just difficult. just like Vne in your airplane, our Vmo is an operating limitation. You cannot deliberately exceed this limit from a legal perspective. And why would you want to?

Is it possible to actually do it? Yes, but it isn't legal, and it isn't particularly safe. And just as you wouldn't deliberately fly above Vne on your airplane, you don't deliberately exceed Vmo in the airship.

 

[X-Forces]

I follow.

You had just made it sound like it was near impossible in your earlier post.

KSCessnaDriver made it sound like it was highly possible in his aircraft.

I also couldn't understand the structural limitation on a blimp, as it doesn't have wings. It would not suffer the same kind of structural damage as an airplane or rotorcraft.

That's all.

 

[inigo88]

First of all, I think there is a high probability that sharing the AFM for the airship on a public forum would be a no-no from the company, so lets not encourage these gentlemen to put their careers in jeopardy to satisfy our curiosity (I suspect that's why the question was dodged, although if you were at liberty to disclose it I'd love to read it too! ).

As a kid I owned a two part VHS documentary by Sporty's about the Goodyear Blimp, and I have always been fascinated by airship flying. The idea that you have to trim the airship into neutral buoyancy (hydrostatic equilibrium) in the air much like a submarine must to "fly" underwater is awesome. I would love to know more about the controls and valves you have at your disposal (usually on the overhead panel I believe) to control the "ballast" air going in and out of the ballonets (as well as the venting of helium from the bladder) and when they're used. Also do you fly with a yoke and rudder pedals or the old school gigantic elevator trim wheel? What control surfaces do you have control over?

Finally, is landing as difficult as it looks? From the documentaries I've seen it looks like you guys fly it all the way to the mast, even when the wheel is on the ground and the crew is holding onto the lines.

Thanks!

 

[queeno]

how many blimps dose MetLife have , one of the Snoopes flew over my house this Wed at about 5pm . i live in North Aurora ILL which is on the Fox River and i assumed he was going to DPA for the night.

OG

 

[spoolinup22]

how many blimps dose MetLife have , one of the Snoopes flew over my house this Wed at about 5pm . i live in North Aurora ILL which is on the Fox River and i assumed he was going to DPA for the night.

OG

I've flown into DPA a few times and saw Snoopy there once!

 

[Apophis]

First of all, I think there is a high probability that sharing the AFM for the airship on a public forum would be a no-no from the company, so lets not encourage these gentlemen to put their careers in jeopardy to satisfy our curiosity (I suspect that's why the question was dodged, although if you were at liberty to disclose it I'd love to read it too! ).

As a kid I owned a two part VHS documentary by Sporty's about the Goodyear Blimp, and I have always been fascinated by airship flying. The idea that you have to trim the airship into neutral buoyancy (hydrostatic equilibrium) in the air much like a submarine must to "fly" underwater is awesome. I would love to know more about the controls and valves you have at your disposal (usually on the overhead panel I believe) to control the "ballast" air going in and out of the ballonets (as well as the venting of helium from the bladder) and when they're used. Also do you fly with a yoke and rudder pedals or the old school gigantic elevator trim wheel? What control surfaces do you have control over?

Finally, is landing as difficult as it looks? From the documentaries I've seen it looks like you guys fly it all the way to the mast, even when the wheel is on the ground and the crew is holding onto the lines.

Thanks!

Yeah, you are correct about the AFM thing. I have two PDF files, one for each Model I fly, as well as the actual printed copies themselves. Don't think the company wants their stuff flying around all over the Internet.

We don't always land at EQ. The maximum takeoff/landing static condition for the A60+ is 250 pounds light to 250 pounds heavy. Light landings are, in my opinion, the most difficult and potentially hazardous things you can do in airships. My airship has a single ballonet, so managing trim is easier than in multiple ballonet airships. In fact we only have nose ballast we can add or subtract on the ground as required for trim. Other airships are different.

As far as valves are concerned, we have two helium valve controls (one for the pressure relief valve, and another for the maneuvering valve at the top of the airship and an air valve control for the ballonet. there is also a damper valve control used to control the amount of ram-air entering the ballonet from the rear-ducts, which catch air from the propeller slipstream.

There is no yoke on these A-60 models. You have a large elevator wheel (looks kind of like a wheelchair) and two rudder pedals.

We physically have control over the rudders (upper and lower) as well as the elevators. There are no ailerons (obviously).

How difficult the landings are depends on a bunch of factors including wind speed, available landing area, static condition on landing, etc.

 

[Apophis]

how many blimps dose MetLife have , one of the Snoopes flew over my house this Wed at about 5pm . i live in North Aurora ILL which is on the Fox River and i assumed he was going to DPA for the night.

OG

There are two Metlife blimps in the US right now, and one in Japan. Metlife does not own or operate these things, my company does, as part of a contract.

 

[Minuteman]

How did you get started flying blimps? Is there an anywhere in North America that offers blimp "Discovery Flights"?

 

[Apophis]

How did you get started flying blimps? Is there an anywhere in North America that offers blimp "Discovery Flights"?

There was a guy who worked at this company for almost 4 years, and he had a blog on the internet documenting his time at the company. The more I read, the more interested I became. Eventually I decided to see if his company was hiring pilots.

They were, so I sent in my resume and one thing basically lead to another, and here I am today.

As far as blimp discovery flights, A company in San Francisco called airship ventures flies the German Zeppelin NT airship. They actually had a thing where you could get several hours of flight time in the Zeppelin for several hundred bucks. I'm not sure if they still do that, but here is their website anyway.

Http://www.airshipventures.com

 

[contactground.9]

I got the opportunity to check out snoopy 2 in Illinois on my way home from osh kosh 2010 with fellow member jrh. It might even be one of you two that showed us around (or that we picked up from the hotel)

Here are the pics I took (hope you don't mind)

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

We don't always land at EQ. The maximum takeoff/landing static condition for the A60+ is 250 pounds light to 250 pounds heavy. Light landings are, in my opinion, the most difficult and potentially hazardous things you can do in airships. My airship has a single ballonet, so managing trim is easier than in multiple ballonet airships. In fact we only have nose ballast we can add or subtract on the ground as required for trim. Other airships are different.

Interesting opinion and not wrong by any means about what you think are the most hazardous thing we do. My opinion is that the heavy landings are more dangerous. In a light landing, if you pull the power back to idle, the ship just goes up like a balloon, taking you away from things you can hit. In a heavy landing, you spend lots of time rolling on the ground at the mercy of the wind. Yes, in a light landing you might have some forward airspeed the ground crew has to arrest, but you have the ability to get off the ground ASAP, whereas when you're very heavy, you have some forward speed, but no ability to make a quick go around.

How difficult the landings are depends on a bunch of factors including wind speed, available landing area, static condition on landing, etc.

Exactly. Any time you start thinking things get easy on landing, something jumps out and bites you.