Bill introduced to ban federal employee unions

Maurus said:
They literally are the same pilots that want the RLA amended to be more labor friendly and expect the GOP to do it. No chance in hell that would happen.
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On a tangent, assuming RLA is "railroad act" I have a peripheral interaction with that law, I have been curious does that just apply to part 121 scheduled airlines, and possibly "on demand" charter, or all commercial flying by a 135 certificate holder (even if the flying in question does not require a 135 in the eyes of the FAA?)
The somewhat vague info I have found, leaves me thinking if you are commercial flying for a specific customer/contract, that the Federal labor laws ,as it relates to overtime, would not be considered "exempted"? I have not found a plain language online reference that spells it out.
Maybe RLA meant something else, if so disregard. THX
 
mightynimbus said:
On a tangent, assuming RLA is "railroad act" I have a peripheral interaction with that law, I have been curious does that just apply to part 121 scheduled airlines, and possibly "on demand" charter, or all commercial flying by a 135 certificate holder (even if the flying in question does not require a 135 in the eyes of the FAA?)
The somewhat vague info I have found, leaves me thinking if you are commercial flying for a specific customer/contract, that the Federal labor laws ,as it relates to overtime, would not be considered "exempted"? I have not found a plain language online reference that spells it out.
Maybe RLA meant something else, if so disregard. THX
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The RLA applies to "air carriers" in general. When that was added to the language of the Act in 1936, the concept of 121 and 135 didn't exist. In general, if a work group at an air carrier unionizes, they fall under the RLA. This would apply to 135 operations as well. NetJet's pilot union bargains under the RLA.

In general, a collectively bargained agreement can supersede federal laws. Hence why hourly minimum wage rules don't apply to aviation as well as overtime requirements.
 
BobDDuck said:
In general, a collectively bargained agreement can supersede federal laws. Hence why hourly minimum wage rules don't apply to aviation as well as overtime requirements.
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Someone should probably tell, in no specific order, various carriers, various carriers flight attendants, and various federal and state courts that.
 
BobDDuck said:
Prior to the age 67 push i think the number was pretty close to zero. You don't hear about all the guys that get rung up on charges (especially at your company) who get bailed out by ALPA and despite their bluster about how their dues are wasted on steak dinners etc, are very thankful for having a union in place.

Not directly knocking mil guys, but if there is a general exception, it's them. Not sure why though.
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Like you and others say, I do think it is "bluster". Easy to complain from behind a wall of union protections. I'm not saying that people actually want ALPA to go away. I'm just saying the sentiment is palpable. And I rarely fly with another mil person, so I can't say I can make the same connection there.
 
I don't love the union, but I do know they help prevent my wages from going down, having decent lodging on the road and other things. I think the union is relatively incompetent filled with politicians with no negotiating experience - but it's something. They do stand up for the employee when wrongs occur. They do protect jobs that are necessary. If the unions disappear mass chaos in the industry will ensue
 
moxiepilot said:
I don't love the union, but I do know they help prevent my wages from going down, having decent lodging on the road and other things. I think the union is relatively incompetent filled with politicians with no negotiating experience - but it's something. They do stand up for the employee when wrongs occur. They do protect jobs that are necessary. If the unions disappear mass chaos in the industry will ensue
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It'll turn into trucking. I'll fly for $300/hr, next guy says I'll fly for $299/hr, next guy says I'll fly for $298/hr and then it just starts to circle the drain as people undercut each other, to the point where personal margins are down to nothing. Which is how we ended up with people driving big rigs for 700 bucks a week.
 
Soku39 said:
It'll turn into trucking. I'll fly for $300/hr, next guy says I'll fly for $299/hr, next guy says I'll fly for $298/hr and then it just starts to circle the drain as people undercut each other, to the point where personal margins are down to nothing. Which is how we ended up with people driving big rigs for 700 bucks a week.
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We had to put a memo out admonishing people to…not make their own deals. At a union carrier, no less.

The PWA protects me from the Company, but it also protects me from the other 17,499 people on this bus.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
We had to put a memo out admonishing people to…not make their own deals. At a union carrier, no less.

The PWA protects me from the Company, but it also protects me from the other 17,499 people on this bus.
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We did too, people ACARSing scheduling in flight to "go find me a reassignment."
 
Soku39 said:
We did too, people ACARSing scheduling in flight to "go find me a reassignment."
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I have a great “cold beer story” regarding catching someone dealing dirty - actually, I have more than one involving more than one someone, now that I think about it - at my former employer.

In all cases we were mad at the Company for their maladministration of the Agreement, of course. But we also had specific language that the Company won’t solicit, and no pilot may accept, anything contrary to the CBA, too. Which I thought was obvious, evidently not.
 
Soku39 said:
It'll turn into trucking. I'll fly for $300/hr, next guy says I'll fly for $299/hr, next guy says I'll fly for $298/hr and then it just starts to circle the drain as people undercut each other, to the point where personal margins are down to nothing. Which is how we ended up with people driving big rigs for 700 bucks a week.
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Goes back to “Will fly for food” thing of the 1990s
 
Soku39 said:
We did too, people ACARSing scheduling in flight to "go find me a reassignment."
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Caught my FO doing it last year. On probation too. Let's just say we had a bit of a talk afterwards. This was also right after another one of the "please don't make side deals" emails too. We are truly our own worst enemies.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
We had to put a memo out admonishing people to…not make their own deals. At a union carrier, no less.

The PWA protects me from the Company, but it also protects me from the other 17,499 people on this bus.
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I was going to reply “mine too!” before I realized who the author was.

I can’t tell you how many people “cut deals” with crew scheduling and then bitch about it when they get burned and “wHaTs AlPo GoNnA Do AbOuT it?”
 
derg said:
I was going to reply “mine too!” before I realized who the author was.

I can’t tell you how many people “cut deals” with crew scheduling and then bitch about it when they get burned and “wHaTs AlPo GoNnA Do AbOuT it?”
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In this volunteer's case, I'm going to point and laugh.
 
derg said:
I was going to reply “mine too!” before I realized who the author was.

I can’t tell you how many people “cut deals” with crew scheduling and then bitch about it when they get burned and “wHaTs AlPo GoNnA Do AbOuT it?”
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Probably the same people who seek out extra available flying at a company, when there’s pilots on furlough.
 
MikeD said:
Probably the same people who seek out extra available flying at a company, when there’s pilots on furlough.
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When stuff went sideways in March, 2020 and I was put on reserve (with the ominous note that "we have plenty of pilots" too) I took my X- and Y-list (as in, premium flying) requests out, and did not restore them until the Company resumed hiring. It was largely irrelevant as I was on reserve anyway, but the chaos still managed to generate a BUNCH of premium flying. It was weird.
 
One nice thing about having an uh let's call it "extremely contentious" history with Management here is that cutting side-deals with Scheduling is "extremely discouraged". Like you definitely wouldn't want anyone finding out, even an otherwise-MAGA-loon might pee in your coffee. I had some salty old grognard with the requisite "Black Rifle Coffee Company" sticker on his EFK start lecturing me about picking up open time until I explained that I had trip-traded into that one.
 
Boris Badenov said:
One nice thing about having an uh let's call it "extremely contentious" history with Management here is that cutting side-deals with Scheduling is "extremely discouraged". Like you definitely wouldn't want anyone finding out, even an otherwise-MAGA-loon might pee in your coffee. I had some salty old grognard with the requisite "Black Rifle Coffee Company" sticker on his EFK start lecturing me about picking up open time until I explained that I had trip-traded into that one.
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Will people be waiting for you in the parking lot at end of trip? 😆
 
Lots of controllers hate NATCA. Don’t know the numbers, but lots left NATCA last year after they just renewed our old contract for the second time instead of negotiating a new one under Biden. By the time this one is over it will have been the same contract for something like 13 years and 1.6% a year does not keep up with inflation.
 
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