dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Okay, your opinion is noted. But, why is that your opinion? That's what I'm trying to get out of people, here...
Beards...what gives?!
- Thread starter ChasenSFO
- Start date
Okay, your opinion is noted. But, why is that your opinion? That's what I'm trying to get out of people, here...
If it wasn't already mentioned, up until the early '80s or so, US Navy surface officers of ships company were allowed to have beards.
Maybe tradition?
I guess it's the same reason that blue jeans appear less professional, whatever reason that might be.
pullup
Homewrecker
Beards that are taken care of are the best. I usually grow one in the winter just because...plus chicks dig the lumberjack look. Regarding oxygen masks, is the oxygen being fed into the mask from tank pressure or is the pilot bringing it into the mask via breathing. If it is from tank pressure then the seal shouldn't matter, I would think.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
I see, but I'll assume blue jeans are prohibited universally in the airlines (a very safe bet). Someone wearing blue jeans with a pilot shirt would not only look ridiculous, he'd also be in violation of his company's FOM. That is certainly an issue of professionalism. But, what about a pilot with a beard that's well within his company's grooming standards? He conforms to those standards in every way, beard and all. Is he unprofessional like the blue jeans wearer, or is this simply the appearance of unprofessionalism?
I was pretty specific on how I worded the original post.
As a side note, not all professional pilot jobs have the same dress code as the airlines. Most small operator freight dogs are free to wear blue jeans on the job.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
You don't think that's a little unfair? To be branded unprofessional looking even though I specifically conform to my company's appearance standards?
seagull
Well-Known Member
To me a bit, but not as much. Reason is also the issues associated with the "y" generation. Airlines have seen a lot of issues and it is even a topic of discussion in safety work. The attitudes for younger people have changed across the board. Goatees, tattoos, etc., have become accepted among younger generations, although have yet to gain acceptance among the more conservative people at the top of the industry, who, of course, lived through the inanity of the 70s styles. It is hard to say if it will change, though, as the 60s generation are the ones driving it at this point, and they, obviously, had different views when younger!
I might consider it to be unfair if I thought that your company standards encompassed all aspects of appearing professional. I'm thinking that those standards might be considered a minimum as opposed to being an ideal though.
To be honest, whether or not I think it fair is rather beside the point. There are a LOT of things in life that aren't fair. Sometimes you have to pick your battles. If this is yours, more power to you.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
I might consider it to be unfair if I thought that your company standards encompassed all aspects of appearing professional. I'm thinking that those standards might be considered a minimum as opposed to being an ideal though.
To be honest, whether or not I think it fair is rather beside the point. There are a LOT of things in life that aren't fair. Sometimes you have to pick your battles. If this is yours, more power to you.
I'm simply asking you to explain your opinion. You're telling me quite directly that I look unprofessional; so far you haven't told me why, only that I do. It's extraordinarily disrespectful. Seagull's argument is at least a complete one, even if I may disagree with parts of it.
The "a lot of things in life aren't fair" argument is a straw man argument at best. We're talking about pilots having facial hair, not the world at large.
1. The "...aren't fair..." statement was more of a general comment rather than actually intending to address your question. Sorry that you took it that way.
2. I have never stated that you look unprofessional. I have never seen you. Send me a picture and maybe then I'll give my opinion about your personal appearance.
3. My comments are not intended to be disrespectful. I have no control over how you (mis)interpret them though, but I will not take ownership of that intention.
4. As far as explaining my statement (let me give it again, verbatim: "Personally I think that a beard appears less professional than clean shaven."), I'm not sure how to give you what you're looking for.
How do you explain that torn blue jeans look sloppy? Or that a shirt partially untucked does not look neat? Aren't all appearance/opinion standards simply artificial constructs that have morphed into societal norms? How else can you explain that fashions from 100 years ago are no longer considered appropriate?
My personal standard of excellence for a professional pilot's appearance does not, in general, include a beard.
I might suggest that you look at my original post closer. No where did I state that ALL pilots that wear beards look unprofessional. Nor did I state that they ARE unprofessional (a road that you started to go down). I simply said, and I stand by my statement, that I feel that clean shaven is MORE professional looking than bearded.
:dunno:
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Well, I certainly appreciate you taking the time to make your point more complete.
If you'll look at my posts, however, I was quite clear that I was talking about the appearance of unprofessionalism (note my use "unprofessional looking" and "look unprofessional" in my posts above); I never felt that you were attacking professionalism outright as you claim.
I'm not trying to sway your opinion, just understand it. I go to work dressed and groomed as per my company's FOM, doing my job as I'm supposed to be doing it, expecting that I'll be seen and treated as a professional. So far that's never been a problem (or had a single person say something to me about it in person), but now I see people on an internet message board saying that I may not at least appear to be the professional that I am. You can understand where my frustration comes from when those with these opinions don't tell me why their opinion is what it is. Luckily I'm not so fragile that I'm going to go shave it off before I go to work; I'm just looking for some basic understanding. A simple courtesy, I suppose.
Anyway, I've said my peace and I'm pretty sure you've said yours. I'm not going to interrupt my Sunday afternoon any further with this.
seagull
Well-Known Member
Both are options, depending on the setting. However, it also misses the issue of protecting you from hazardous fumes and smoke.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
You doubt the sense of style of our friends in Europe?
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6988665&nseq=5
It was a crew training flight, but none the less rocking jeans and flying the bus!
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
Training session, sans PAX. (according to the photog's notes)
I still tend to think that you are missing my point. I was not talking about unprofessionalism, nor did I say nor imply that bearded pilots are unprofessional. You are reading that somewhere other than my posts. I simply said that I find a beard to be less professional than clean-shaven. If we think of professionalism as a continuum with "professional" on the far right and "unprofessional" on the far left, I simply find that, in general, people with beards would be further to the left on the continuum than those without (all other things being equal). I never said that bearded pilots are all the way over to the left end, just that it is a matter of degree.
If someone is saying that you are not appearing to be professional, it is not me. Feel free to respond to any of *their* posts in that manner, but I'd rather you didn't imply that I'm saying something that I have not. When you quote my posts with those kind of statements I tend to assume that you are talking about my comments.
Anyway, I've said my peace and I'm pretty sure you've said yours. I'm not going to interrupt my Sunday afternoon any further with this.
Your choice. I thought we were getting somewhere with the discussion. :dunno:
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Broksi, I think you keep misreading what Steve is saying. Let me try to translate into different terms. Personally, I think overall Asian girls are the most attractive. Does that mean I don't think there are hot Black girls, White girls, Latin girls? Hellz to the no. I would just, in general, prefer an Asian girl.
Catch my drift?
Catch my drift?
pullup
Homewrecker
Thanks for the info. I would think if there is a higher pressure in the mask (if the tank is feeding the mask) then the hazardous fumes would be kept out from the pressure differential. Either way, good info in this thread.
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
However, an improper fit will allow more O2 to leak and thus depleting it at a faster rate. Not to mention the escaping air is going to keep the VOX open and give you a horrendous noise in your headset/speakers. Also, if it is leaking, the air diverted to the smoke goggles will be reduced.
Bumblebee
Commodore
So you think Asian girls make better "professionals"... I understand. I think you have serious problems, but whatev's