Beards...what gives?!

rjmore said:
I have my Goatee and bald head so I look scarier walking around ANC. Keeps the locals from being able to recognize the alternate airline pilot uniform (acid washed jeans from 1990, slightly wrinkled polo shirt tucked in, prisitine white running shoes, and walking like they are going to a fire).

Martin, come on over to the big green machine and you can look like the Gorton's fisherman!
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You do look like someone that came off a fishing boat, the North Slope or out of prison, so it works for you.

I look forward to seeing you in ANC soon though. Time for more Sanitary Cheese at F Street.
 
NJA_Capt said:
200 years ago? Really
They also bathed once or twice a year and didn't have ready access to a barber. I'd like to think standards have improved.
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That doesn't mean they didn't look good. And really, what does the frequency of bathing have to do with your hair style? Same goes for access to a barber, I'm sure there was someone in the unit that could give them a trim. Many of those styles required some pretty impeccable trimming.

You're absolutely right about forming a tight seal with an oxygen mask. I just don't agree with professional. I think judging someone's degree of professionalism based on short hair or pleated pants is just lazy. The one great thing that separates us from the Chinese or Indian's is creativity. Let's celebrate it again.
 
This thread makes me happy, glad to see I am not the only one who feels this way. I had to earn my beard at my flight school, finally convinced them after 8 months. My face was oh so cold..............
 
greaper007 said:
That doesn't mean they didn't look good. And really, what does the frequency of bathing have to do with your hair style? Same goes for access to a barber, I'm sure there was someone in the unit that could give them a trim. Many of those styles required some pretty impeccable trimming.

You're absolutely right about forming a tight seal with an oxygen mask. I just don't agree with professional. I think judging someone's degree of professionalism based on short hair or pleated pants is just lazy. The one great thing that separates us from the Chinese or Indian's is creativity. Let's celebrate it again.
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Get a haircut hippie! Clean yourself up! :D
 
It comes from the same military conservatism regarding facial hair. It has nothing to do with Oxygen or whatever other safety issue they like to talk about. No real reason is the answer
 
MikeD said:
Get a haircut hippie! Clean yourself up! :D
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When I stopped flying I grew my hair to my shoulders and started rocking what I called "The Conquistador." A half mustache half goatee of my own design. I eventually cut it off just because....long hair is a lot of work. It was too short for a ponytail, too long to stay out of my face. So I had to constantly wear a hat in the gym or while I was cooking. I ended up shaving it all off last summer.

The funny thing is my dad is an ex-Navy fighter pilot. When I was in college he'd always tell me to stop getting haircuts or dye my hair or do something wild with my appearance because I wouldn't be able to in a few years. He was completely wrong.
 
Yes, sanitary cheese would be good.

If only we knew someone in ANC *hint hint cough hint fart hint ASPilot2be*, we could go off the reservation and have some fine beverages in another establishment. I've been getting flogged pretty hard lately and haven't had very long layovers so hopefully things will calm down soon. Drop me a line with your schedule in Jan. and we'll put something together.
 
seagull said:
to some extent. There are several issues here:

1. No matter how you cut it, you DO get a better seal with no hair (try a dive mask with hair in it). There is no rational counter to this, with the possible exception of adding silicone sealant to your beard! You have to get more leakage with hair than without, all else equal.

2. Oxygen masks are NOT only to give you supplemental oxygen, but, these days, more importantly, to protect the flight crew from toxic fumes in the event of a fire. A small "leak" is a big deal in that situation, even using the emergency flow position.

3. It is the company's prerogative to set their appearance standards.

4. It is the company's prerogative to establish their safety standards.
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Totally unrelated but my dad has a full beard and is a diver. He says that with a little vaseline you get a perfect seal.
 
born2aviate said:
Totally unrelated but my dad has a full beard and is a diver. He says that with a little vaseline you get a perfect seal.
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For pilots that would mean 100% oxygen and oil, brilliant....

Dive masks generally fit above the beard hair line, in my experience.

Hair does decrease the mask seal. That is not the question, the arguments appear to be that it doesn't decrease it by "that much", and that "it must be ok because xyz airline allows it". For the first argument, the same could be said about just about every procedure we have. Not following, or bending the rules a bit doesn't decrease it "that much". The mask issue works because the times you really need it are few and far between, and so the issue just does not manifest itself that often. You could use the same argument on beards to argue that we don't need the masks at all, you know.

The second argument can be answered the same way, or, taken another way, it is a bit like arguing that because some other parents allow their kids to smoke pot and they haven't had any issues that all parents should do the same.
 
seagull said:
The second argument can be answered the same way, or, taken another way, it is a bit like arguing that because some other parents allow their kids to smoke pot and they haven't had any issues that all parents should do the same.
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That comparison is a bit exaggerated, don't you think?

I'm not sure how little or how a lot facial hair affects the O2 mask seal. However, I know my goatee fits under the mask completely. To those who believe it's a professionalism issue, can you explain your position more fully?
 
How you dress, shave, not shave, shine your shoes, etc has ZERO to do with how you fly an airplane. I've flown an airplane in jeans and a t-shirt, and I've flown a plane in a shirt and tie, and the end result was the same thing.
 
dasleben said:
That comparison is a bit exaggerated, don't you think?

I'm not sure how little or how a lot facial hair affects the O2 mask seal. However, I know my goatee fits under the mask completely. To those who believe it's a professionalism issue, can you explain your position more fully?
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I don't know quite where the taboo against beards came from, but because of that and that everybody feels that one must first portray an image of success. A beard I guess does not portray such. Even then it just comes down to grooming it just like your hair. It's one thing to look like a hobo and another to look like a man. Just one less thing for companies to regulate as far as dress code goes.
 
Stupid question from someone whose professional flying aspirations involve never getting about 500' AGL, but if you are in a 121 machine and have to don the mask for some reason...and there was whisker hair inside it from the previous pilot...wouldn't that be a little gross? How about getting that in your mouth? Yummy. Now, Europeans maybe don't mind this but America is a little more anal on things like hygiene than Europe can be. Wouldn't that lead to the spread of germs (more than already exists)? Not sure, and hopefully will never have to wear O2 masks for any purpose but it was just a thought. I think getting a hair in my mouth after putting on the mask would cause a small burp of puke to circulate in my mouth.
 
Jimmy_Norton said:
How you dress, shave, not shave, shine your shoes, etc has ZERO to do with how you fly an airplane. I've flown an airplane in jeans and a t-shirt, and I've flown a plane in a shirt and tie, and the end result was the same thing.
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While that is true on the surface, there has been a lot of research on this issue. If a uniform is required, the attention to detail aspect that makes for safe operations cuts across the entire spectrum, including adhering to those policies. It is a bit like cleaning the graffiti in NYC led to a reduction in crime across the board. Also, and perhaps the larger factor, is how it affects those around you, those who you fly with, and their actions. It is an interesting sub-topic that I have, personally, done a lot of research in. I didn't initially think it would make any difference either, for the record. I guess this also might address dasleben's question also.
 
WacoFan said:
Stupid question from someone whose professional flying aspirations involve never getting about 500' AGL, but if you are in a 121 machine and have to don the mask for some reason...and there was whisker hair inside it from the previous pilot...wouldn't that be a little gross? How about getting that in your mouth? Yummy. Now, Europeans maybe don't mind this but America is a little more anal on things like hygiene than Europe can be. Wouldn't that lead to the spread of germs (more than already exists)? Not sure, and hopefully will never have to wear O2 masks for any purpose but it was just a thought. I think getting a hair in my mouth after putting on the mask would cause a small burp of puke to circulate in my mouth.
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Eh, I think if you really needed it for its function, that'd be the last thing on my mind. If you do need to put it on when the other guy steps out, you can just wipe it down with a sanitary wipe first. But, I don't think my facial hair would be a problem; I keep mine trimmed down to about 1/4". I'd be much more concerned about the proverbial ALPA 'stache. ;)

seagull said:
While that is true on the surface, there has been a lot of research on this issue. If a uniform is required, the attention to detail aspect that makes for safe operations cuts across the entire spectrum, including adhering to those policies. It is a bit like cleaning the graffiti in NYC led to a reduction in crime across the board. Also, and perhaps the larger factor, is how it affects those around you, those who you fly with, and their actions. It is an interesting sub-topic that I have, personally, done a lot of research in. I didn't initially think it would make any difference either, for the record. I guess this also might address dasleben's question also.
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I see what you're saying, but if the beard or goatee fits within the grooming standards of that company's FOM, no attention to detail is missed. From there, it's just personal opinion. Nobody seems to be able to tell me why a goatee or beard looks unprofessional, only that it is. Do these people actually believe that, or are they simply parroting the mantra of their own particular company?

Like I said previously, I've had absolutely zero issues jumpseating with a neatly-trimmed goatee. If anyone has said anything, it's always been along the lines of "Cool, I wish I could have a goatee."
 
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