BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:
The closer in age you are to a college grad the worse it is. Financially anyway.
The closer in age you are to a college grad the worse it is. Financially anyway.
Bankruptcy from the most expensive helicopter ride ever!
- Thread starter TexasFlyer
- Start date
Chucco
Well-Known Member
Wow, I feel for you buddy! Sounds like you've had a tough time. You must have pretty strong character to able to go through what you have and keep moving forward like you are. :clap:
I would like to think that you would be ok with a bankruptcy as well. I think that it isn't permanent, and eventually it gets taken off your record completely. Do you have another choice? Half a million... I can't even wrap my head around that number after a dollar sign.:insane:
I would like to think that you would be ok with a bankruptcy as well. I think that it isn't permanent, and eventually it gets taken off your record completely. Do you have another choice? Half a million... I can't even wrap my head around that number after a dollar sign.:insane:
HeyEng
Well-Known Member
I will piggy back on what Waco said...
Don't feel guilty because you can't pay the medical bills. Society does a great job of looking down on those that don't make their "minimum payments". The commercials do it, the bill collectors do it, banks do it...hell, so much revolves around a stupid FICO score. I am not saying everyone should stop paying their obligations, but on occasion, there is a legitimate reason to "skip out" and yours is one. Even if you declare BK, it's better than the alternative. If you don't pay the current bills, then some of them will probably go for a judgment against you and when that happens, well, your credit will be just as bad and whereas a BK will eventually come off your credit, a judgment can be renewed FOREVER MORE!
Stop feeling guilty...this is something that you didn't plan for and it happens...it was an accident after all. Trust me, the guys running the banks don't lose any sleep at night for not holding up their end of the bargain.
Speaking of heli rides...a few years ago, my Grandmother fell ill while on a cruise. They had to take the ship to the Dominican Republic and she got to "hitch a ride" to Miami in a LJ. How much was that first class trip? How about a cool 87K bucks!
Don't feel guilty because you can't pay the medical bills. Society does a great job of looking down on those that don't make their "minimum payments". The commercials do it, the bill collectors do it, banks do it...hell, so much revolves around a stupid FICO score. I am not saying everyone should stop paying their obligations, but on occasion, there is a legitimate reason to "skip out" and yours is one. Even if you declare BK, it's better than the alternative. If you don't pay the current bills, then some of them will probably go for a judgment against you and when that happens, well, your credit will be just as bad and whereas a BK will eventually come off your credit, a judgment can be renewed FOREVER MORE!
Stop feeling guilty...this is something that you didn't plan for and it happens...it was an accident after all. Trust me, the guys running the banks don't lose any sleep at night for not holding up their end of the bargain.
Speaking of heli rides...a few years ago, my Grandmother fell ill while on a cruise. They had to take the ship to the Dominican Republic and she got to "hitch a ride" to Miami in a LJ. How much was that first class trip? How about a cool 87K bucks!
greaper007
Well-Known Member
+1 for bankruptcy.
TexasFlyer
Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
I called my insurance and asked since I had full coverage insurance of comprehensive and liability. They are fixing the bike, but not me. They said my package covers up to $50k of medical bills for other people, but not a penny for myself. And since it was determined to be a no-fault accident, no help comes my way from any other parties either.
3enginejock
Well-Known Member
Wow, this sucks. I once racked up a 8k medical bill and im still paying it little by little. Now I always make sure I have health insurance because you never know when something is going to happen. I would put health insurance as one of your priorities in the future.
The Gardener
Terrafirma Phobic
This all seems really odd to me.
I've always been able to afford medical insurance (the cheapo stuff at some times in my life).
I've never been able to afford a mortgage, or a motorcycle.
I've always been able to afford medical insurance (the cheapo stuff at some times in my life).
I've never been able to afford a mortgage, or a motorcycle.
FlyGuy9k4
Old Skool
I can't afford it, and i've got MAX on everything for health insurance- i pay $230 a month for EVERYTHING - that way if i get a severe paper cut- ITS COVERED... .. reason why... a buddy of mine in college, got in a fight in a bar- his jaw was wired shut for a month- NO INSURANCE.. he dropped out of school...
So as a contract pilot- not making much money as it is... I feel ok at night knowing that yes- i don't have much money- but at least I'm covered if ANYTHING happens.. dental, vision.. .etc etc..
To the OP- Bankruptcy seems to be your ONLY option?... So i'd go with it.. If i was in your shoes..... I'd declare.
Glad your feeling and doing better though- health is very important!
TexasFlyer
Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
Thanks. Wow I wish I could get out and enjoy some fireworks and festivities today since it's the 4th already. But I am stuck in bed since I am not allowed to put any weight on my left foot and my left ribs and collar bone are still healing from the breaks. So crutches are not an option. And my wheel chair is too heavy and awkward to put into my truck alone with only one good leg and one good arm. At least I can watch the Macy's fireworks show on TV since without cable I do get 3 channels and one of them is going to televise that 
And thanks JetCareers friends. You all have really helped me settle my mind quite a bit. Maybe it was me in my old business mindset beating myself up a little too much over this. I do at times revert back to my business self since that was most of my professional life. Flying is still a blink compared to all the years in the corporate world. I just did not want to be another person who skips out on bills. And while maybe crazy expensive, the medical bills are rightfully my bills. I am proud of what I done up to now in accomplishing my dreams. Just 2 months ago my life was flying, riding my bike, and enjoying my girlfriend on a daily basis. All three of those are gone now. And on top of that I am very proud that my credit score is over 800 with all three agencies. But I am certain that is already way down by now and will be in a dark abyss very soon.
But the reality is, my health is first and I am going to get it back. And most of this is a situation that is out of my control as you mention. The Medical BK tool is there for me in this case to handle the medical bills. I should not let that hurt my pride. And I just did realize this now thanks to you all.
I just wish I could pay something to the medical people who helped me. That would help me feel good, but even a few grand is an embarrassment to the total bill. And I can't pay a penny anyway since I can't even make mortgage come August. I will talk to the bank about that soon. I heard they have a hardship department that will work with me short term since they know if the house fell into BK, that would be awful for not only me but them as well in the current economy. So they created the hardship department to provide short term flexibility to those in my situation from what I understand.
And I should also keep pride in that I will make good on all else. And even with a terrible credit score, my credit report will reflect that I keep my house and student loan out of the BK. I will still pay on those as I always have since I can afford to pay those once back to work later this year. And even though there will be some late pays and missed payments on those items, I can fend them off temporarily until back on my feet. I hope they know they will get paid since I certainly know they will get paid. It's the right thing to do since it is only the medical bills that will be in BK. I am pretty sure it works that way.
Oh and about Medicaid. In Texas you have to have less than $2,000 in countable assets. I have about $25k to $30k equity in my house as it sits in the current market. I also have a $12,000 to $14,000 book value 2006 Toyota that I bought new in 2006 with cash. That was to give me reliable transport for my career transition since I knew it would have to last at least 10 years to get me through until my pay would come up to a reasonable level in aviation.
So even with less than $100 left in my bank account and no income coming in, Texas will not allow me to have Medicaid due to the truck and house. I can give the truck to CarMax which I would be in a heart beat if it would help make good on things. But it would not make a difference. Owning a house with any equity is a major problem due to the rules of Medicaid. I have to lose my house before I get Medicaid. And you have a 90 day retroactive window for bills when you apply to Medicaid. I am already 60 days in just about. So the house will not sell in 30 days or less of course. And this bothered me for quite some time since Medicaid would pay a vast majority of the bills and leave me with a much more reasonable Medical bill I could pay back completely over ten or so years, even if fifty bucks at a time.
Again, while not happy about that system, it's the rules of the game. And you all got me thinking. The rules of the game make Medical BK the rightful option and I should not feel bad about it. I did pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes every year while in my previous career. And a lot of that went to Medicaid which is not even something they will allow me to have given my home ownership situation. And I will still ultimately pay all my other obligations as I always have so I am not skipping out on them.
So thank you everyone. I really am feeling a little better about this situation. I still have a long way to go to recover, physically and financially. And the doc did say I may never fly again since I will not be able to feel 3/4 of my foot due to all the nerve damage/ But I already know he is wrong since I can feel 4 of my 5 toes right now. Plus I feel a lot of pain in my foot still and that means I can feel my foot in most areas except for a small part on top and near the base of my toes. So I am sure someday I will be flying the doc and his family somewhere for their vacation!
Oh yes. One last thing on how flying does not pay since that was brought up. In my old career most of us professional recruiting consultants made in the ball park of $100k and $250k a year. Those I know who were at that level in 2006 are now no where near that level. They are all around the $90k to $120k range. Many have left the stress of that world and went into corporate HR and make around $80k to $110k in that world since it's more stable. Now that's not drop in the bucket, but remember. These people lost 50% of their income or more in many cases over the last 4 years and they say pay scales are still coming down as their salaries are frozen. So what is the trend there?
It seems even for accountants and engineers coming out of college, their salaries are stagnate. And that is even if the new grad can find a job. Many are making no more money than us CFI's and pilots since they are working in jobs that are not related to their degree. Like the server at the restaurant or assistant manager at Walgreens or selling cars in the current economy.
So yes. It is true. I made less income in the last two years combined than I paid in taxes alone in 2006 which was my last full year in the corporate world. That is a drastic change financially. But I can say this. In 2006 I was not a good person inside. I disliked my career and I treated my whole life and interpersonal relationship like a business. Everything was about money and status. I would go weeks without a smile and I did not respect people as much. True happiness and peace was not in my heart. Stress was there!
Every since I began flying, I changed into a different person. I value the people in my life and I absolutely smile every day since even the sound of an airplane still makes me smile. And even though I am in a wheel chair and in a lot of pain and my foot and leg is a bloody mess from all the damage and skin grafts (it's a visual nightmare), I still went to the airport a few times to watch airplanes at San Antonio and Stinson airports. People who seen me there question why I am not in bed healing. What they do not understand is that when you love airplanes and aviation so much and you worked so hard to achieve your dream, just being at the airport is the best healing a person can have. It gives hope and happiness and reminds me of the feeling I get when performing my duties as a professional aviator. And no matter how much or how little this profession pays. And no matter how frustrating things in life can become from pursuing my dream, I will always be a professional aviator and I will fly until the medical or retirement gods tell me it's time to change.
That passion I would not trade that for anything. Well except for maybe a good woman who has wife potential. I lost her in this accident, but I dealt with that quick and already put her behind me since I can do better. She came to the hospital the day after the accident and I never seen her again. She will not respond to me at all so I gave up on her a month ago now. All I know and remember, since I was not fully together mentally from all the drugs and tubes hooked to me that day, was that she was told I may lose my foot and have other complications. That was a good possibility at that time. And that was too much for her to bare.
So unfortunately I though she'd help. But since she is gone I am actually going through this whole situation now pretty much alone with some helpful encouragement from my family (but they are all over 1,000 miles away) and the occasional help of some of my past students and folks at the school who stop by to check on me. They been a savior and don't know it yet. And of course, now the encouragement of all of you here which I value greatly. Thank you again!
And yep. I write too much. But then, I don't really have anything else to do
And thanks JetCareers friends. You all have really helped me settle my mind quite a bit. Maybe it was me in my old business mindset beating myself up a little too much over this. I do at times revert back to my business self since that was most of my professional life. Flying is still a blink compared to all the years in the corporate world. I just did not want to be another person who skips out on bills. And while maybe crazy expensive, the medical bills are rightfully my bills. I am proud of what I done up to now in accomplishing my dreams. Just 2 months ago my life was flying, riding my bike, and enjoying my girlfriend on a daily basis. All three of those are gone now. And on top of that I am very proud that my credit score is over 800 with all three agencies. But I am certain that is already way down by now and will be in a dark abyss very soon.
But the reality is, my health is first and I am going to get it back. And most of this is a situation that is out of my control as you mention. The Medical BK tool is there for me in this case to handle the medical bills. I should not let that hurt my pride. And I just did realize this now thanks to you all.
I just wish I could pay something to the medical people who helped me. That would help me feel good, but even a few grand is an embarrassment to the total bill. And I can't pay a penny anyway since I can't even make mortgage come August. I will talk to the bank about that soon. I heard they have a hardship department that will work with me short term since they know if the house fell into BK, that would be awful for not only me but them as well in the current economy. So they created the hardship department to provide short term flexibility to those in my situation from what I understand.
And I should also keep pride in that I will make good on all else. And even with a terrible credit score, my credit report will reflect that I keep my house and student loan out of the BK. I will still pay on those as I always have since I can afford to pay those once back to work later this year. And even though there will be some late pays and missed payments on those items, I can fend them off temporarily until back on my feet. I hope they know they will get paid since I certainly know they will get paid. It's the right thing to do since it is only the medical bills that will be in BK. I am pretty sure it works that way.
Oh and about Medicaid. In Texas you have to have less than $2,000 in countable assets. I have about $25k to $30k equity in my house as it sits in the current market. I also have a $12,000 to $14,000 book value 2006 Toyota that I bought new in 2006 with cash. That was to give me reliable transport for my career transition since I knew it would have to last at least 10 years to get me through until my pay would come up to a reasonable level in aviation.
So even with less than $100 left in my bank account and no income coming in, Texas will not allow me to have Medicaid due to the truck and house. I can give the truck to CarMax which I would be in a heart beat if it would help make good on things. But it would not make a difference. Owning a house with any equity is a major problem due to the rules of Medicaid. I have to lose my house before I get Medicaid. And you have a 90 day retroactive window for bills when you apply to Medicaid. I am already 60 days in just about. So the house will not sell in 30 days or less of course. And this bothered me for quite some time since Medicaid would pay a vast majority of the bills and leave me with a much more reasonable Medical bill I could pay back completely over ten or so years, even if fifty bucks at a time.
Again, while not happy about that system, it's the rules of the game. And you all got me thinking. The rules of the game make Medical BK the rightful option and I should not feel bad about it. I did pay tens of thousands of dollars in taxes every year while in my previous career. And a lot of that went to Medicaid which is not even something they will allow me to have given my home ownership situation. And I will still ultimately pay all my other obligations as I always have so I am not skipping out on them.
So thank you everyone. I really am feeling a little better about this situation. I still have a long way to go to recover, physically and financially. And the doc did say I may never fly again since I will not be able to feel 3/4 of my foot due to all the nerve damage/ But I already know he is wrong since I can feel 4 of my 5 toes right now. Plus I feel a lot of pain in my foot still and that means I can feel my foot in most areas except for a small part on top and near the base of my toes. So I am sure someday I will be flying the doc and his family somewhere for their vacation!
Oh yes. One last thing on how flying does not pay since that was brought up. In my old career most of us professional recruiting consultants made in the ball park of $100k and $250k a year. Those I know who were at that level in 2006 are now no where near that level. They are all around the $90k to $120k range. Many have left the stress of that world and went into corporate HR and make around $80k to $110k in that world since it's more stable. Now that's not drop in the bucket, but remember. These people lost 50% of their income or more in many cases over the last 4 years and they say pay scales are still coming down as their salaries are frozen. So what is the trend there?
It seems even for accountants and engineers coming out of college, their salaries are stagnate. And that is even if the new grad can find a job. Many are making no more money than us CFI's and pilots since they are working in jobs that are not related to their degree. Like the server at the restaurant or assistant manager at Walgreens or selling cars in the current economy.
So yes. It is true. I made less income in the last two years combined than I paid in taxes alone in 2006 which was my last full year in the corporate world. That is a drastic change financially. But I can say this. In 2006 I was not a good person inside. I disliked my career and I treated my whole life and interpersonal relationship like a business. Everything was about money and status. I would go weeks without a smile and I did not respect people as much. True happiness and peace was not in my heart. Stress was there!
Every since I began flying, I changed into a different person. I value the people in my life and I absolutely smile every day since even the sound of an airplane still makes me smile. And even though I am in a wheel chair and in a lot of pain and my foot and leg is a bloody mess from all the damage and skin grafts (it's a visual nightmare), I still went to the airport a few times to watch airplanes at San Antonio and Stinson airports. People who seen me there question why I am not in bed healing. What they do not understand is that when you love airplanes and aviation so much and you worked so hard to achieve your dream, just being at the airport is the best healing a person can have. It gives hope and happiness and reminds me of the feeling I get when performing my duties as a professional aviator. And no matter how much or how little this profession pays. And no matter how frustrating things in life can become from pursuing my dream, I will always be a professional aviator and I will fly until the medical or retirement gods tell me it's time to change.
That passion I would not trade that for anything. Well except for maybe a good woman who has wife potential. I lost her in this accident, but I dealt with that quick and already put her behind me since I can do better. She came to the hospital the day after the accident and I never seen her again. She will not respond to me at all so I gave up on her a month ago now. All I know and remember, since I was not fully together mentally from all the drugs and tubes hooked to me that day, was that she was told I may lose my foot and have other complications. That was a good possibility at that time. And that was too much for her to bare.
So unfortunately I though she'd help. But since she is gone I am actually going through this whole situation now pretty much alone with some helpful encouragement from my family (but they are all over 1,000 miles away) and the occasional help of some of my past students and folks at the school who stop by to check on me. They been a savior and don't know it yet. And of course, now the encouragement of all of you here which I value greatly. Thank you again!
And yep. I write too much. But then, I don't really have anything else to do
TexasFlyer
Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
Keep in mind. The house and motorcycle and my truck are items I had from my past career. Not my flying career. Just the 3 items I kept, as I sold all else to go to flight school in 2007. Heck, I would not have been able to afford any of these items on my CFI income. So all are from before I went to flight school.
The truck is paid for. The motorcycle costs nothing since I made up for in fuel mileage anything it cost me (well, except these medical bills now!). And the total house mortgage cost no more than a 2 bedroom 2 bath apartment of the same size here in San Antonio. And I do rent out a room in it which pays just under half the mortgage, making it reasonable for me even as a CFI to afford. After all, renting would cost me the same exact monthly payment.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
A couple of things
First off, you're not bankrupt (yet). You have a mountain of medical bills you can't pay. There is a big difference.
You are bankrupt when AND ONLY WHEN your debtors have sued you, won, garnished your wages and you can't buy groceries. Then and only then should you declare chapter 7. This date is at least 18 months away, probably much longer. Unpaid medical bills on your credit report are much better than what a Ch 7 will do to it.
In the meantime you should start negotiating with all these places for a lower bill, and payment options. You can't pay those bills right now, but you can (and should) try to pay some amount in the near future. Even if it is only a token amount, the people and companies that helped save your life deserve whatever you can pay.
Second, Once you've done all you can do, don't let anyone make you feel guilty. You have been very responsible with your money, and you are only in this situation because of some terrible luck. There are a LOT of people who have been in your shoes. Medical bills are the # 1 reason for declarign bankruptcy.
This won't likely have a huge effect on getting a flying job in the future. It' might close a few doors, but all of them. Also as more time passes, the effects will fade. 10 years from now, it won't even be an issue.
Third to everybody who "can't afford" medical inssurance. Price out some really high deductible (5-10K) catostrophic care insurance. If you are young and in good health, they really aren't too much money. You could be saving yourself from this kind of disaster.
First off, you're not bankrupt (yet). You have a mountain of medical bills you can't pay. There is a big difference.
You are bankrupt when AND ONLY WHEN your debtors have sued you, won, garnished your wages and you can't buy groceries. Then and only then should you declare chapter 7. This date is at least 18 months away, probably much longer. Unpaid medical bills on your credit report are much better than what a Ch 7 will do to it.
In the meantime you should start negotiating with all these places for a lower bill, and payment options. You can't pay those bills right now, but you can (and should) try to pay some amount in the near future. Even if it is only a token amount, the people and companies that helped save your life deserve whatever you can pay.
Second, Once you've done all you can do, don't let anyone make you feel guilty. You have been very responsible with your money, and you are only in this situation because of some terrible luck. There are a LOT of people who have been in your shoes. Medical bills are the # 1 reason for declarign bankruptcy.
This won't likely have a huge effect on getting a flying job in the future. It' might close a few doors, but all of them. Also as more time passes, the effects will fade. 10 years from now, it won't even be an issue.
Third to everybody who "can't afford" medical inssurance. Price out some really high deductible (5-10K) catostrophic care insurance. If you are young and in good health, they really aren't too much money. You could be saving yourself from this kind of disaster.
greaper007
Well-Known Member
Is there anyway you can put your assets in your mom, dad's, sister's, other person you can trusts name? When I bought our house we put all our debt in my name and put the house in my wife's name, then once the transaction was complete we did a "quickdeed" (I believe it was called) and put it in both of our names.
Is there anyway you can transfer assets like you car and home to a trusted family member/friend before you declare bankruptcy? Do this right and you can possibly come out better than before you started, just look at the great American bankruptcy examples like Donald Trump!
Is there anyway you can transfer assets like you car and home to a trusted family member/friend before you declare bankruptcy? Do this right and you can possibly come out better than before you started, just look at the great American bankruptcy examples like Donald Trump!
I_Money
Moderator
Funny how people say they can't afford health insurance yet have a motorcycle, smoking habit or other expensive hobby - heck the OP is even a home owner. Sorry buddy no sympathy from me. I would love $6,000 to spend on something fun or buy a house! Instead I spend that money (over 10% of my income) on insuring my family's welfare and you and people like you are the reason it is so expensive. Thanks for making my life harder while you were out having a good time on your bike!
BillErvin
Peddling as fast as I can
In general what is suggested here would be considered fraud. Bankruptcy Courts tend to frown on it, and will usually reverse things like this......yes they can and will do this. As a rule, most BK judges won't take your only transportation and homestead laws in Texas will usually allow you to keep your house.
My best advise, Get a well recommended BK lawyer, follow his advise and don't take advise from forum lawyers. Then, think shelter, food, transportation.... in that order. Pay your mortgage, feed your family, buy gas to get to work, then and only then, start paying everything else.
Read up on the federal debt collection act so you can use it in your favor, you'll be far ahead of the deadbeats that will start calling you unceasingly wanting to collect on bills.
NickH
Uber Driver
I've been dealing with my wife's credit issues, and the collectors are pure scum. Get a phone recorder and read up on the FDCPA. You can ALWAYS get them to violate on the phone, and that gives you $1000 of leverage when it comes to settlement time. Additionally, search yur credit card contracts for the small print and get to know your arbitration clause. Arbitration has backfired on the banks and you can use this to your advantage. I've heard 5% payable in 2012 as a typical settlement. Right now I'm waiting on a response to a settlement offer where I have a debt collector desperate to walk away with nothing, and I'm demanding damages. $2500 debt has disappeared (he sued for $6000+).
You're a smart guy, take the time to read the rules, learn what you have to and you can improve your situation a great deal. Most collectors want you to ignore it so they win by default, and may cave if you put up even a hint of a fight.
You're a smart guy, take the time to read the rules, learn what you have to and you can improve your situation a great deal. Most collectors want you to ignore it so they win by default, and may cave if you put up even a hint of a fight.
I spent my years as a CFI sans health insurance because I couldn't afford it.
My parents helped pay for my automobile and I lived on a couch at a relative's house. I dodged a bullet when I totaled my car one morning on the drive to work.
Economically, that's what our society demands. If the CFI hourly rate was enough to cover health insurance, the rate would be so high that people wouldn't want to take flight instruction, and that sucks.
Kind of related to how we all want cheap tickets from JFK to LAX on the forum, but we also want compensation requisite with our skillset.
My parents helped pay for my automobile and I lived on a couch at a relative's house. I dodged a bullet when I totaled my car one morning on the drive to work.
Economically, that's what our society demands. If the CFI hourly rate was enough to cover health insurance, the rate would be so high that people wouldn't want to take flight instruction, and that sucks.
Kind of related to how we all want cheap tickets from JFK to LAX on the forum, but we also want compensation requisite with our skillset.