Bankruptcy from the most expensive helicopter ride ever!

[TexasFlyer]

I did a quick search and could not find much on this one as this really concerns me quite a bit and is really bothering me as I never thought this one would happen to me... yep, I had the 'it wouldn't happen to me' attitude on this one!

A QUICK INTRO:
Many of you know me on here from the past and followed my story from 2007 to 2009 on here in detail. Well I am now a CFI, CFII, and MEI with over 1,200 hours of which over 800 hours are instruction given in Cessna 152, 172, 172RG, and 310. Even got to spend some time in Mexico flying the 421 which was a blast.

THE PROBLEM!!!
I was in the hospital for 2 weeks on the trauma floor from a freak motorcycle accident back in May. My own bike ran me over in a no fault accident. The rear wheel ended up removing the top of my foot which caused a lot of surgery to include reconstruction of the foot and skin grafts. Also had many other broke bones, but those are now 3/4 healed. My foot still has a long way to go.

It's now July and I am still in a wheel chair and I have not worked in a couple months. I also can not work for several more months as I will be in intense physical therapy learning to walk again. And even trying to teach ground school or anything is a challenge since the pain killers make me delirious at times. That said, I hope this makes sense...lol.

I should be able to start working and flying again in about 4-5 months from now I am told. But that is not much help at this point since I am running on fumes now.

I am a CFI that works as a contractor and has no insurance. So far the bills stack up like such:
Ambulance: $7,000
Helicopter: $22,000 (most expensive aircraft rental ever!!)
Hospital Room for 2 weeks: $56,000 (yes, that's 3 zero's!)
Surgeons & Docs: $126,000 and counting since I still have to go back weekly for check ups and one more skin graft!
Stacks of other bills that keep coming from other docs and x-rays and such: $54,000 I'll just stop there!

Long story short. I am told this will total me between $300,000 and $500,000 once all is said and done.

Up until now I have always had perfect credit. I was barely making it on my CFI wages as a contractor but I was still able to hang in there and even on the worst of months I was able to never miss a payment.

I never missed a payment until this month on anything. I had to no pay my credit card and SLM loan (the only debt I had proir to the medical bills) in order to cover my mortgage and living expenses. I am now totally out of money. I have no clue what to do come August (I was able to already cover July but it leaves nothing!).

I always been proud of my credit. And even more pround of how my career change to being a professional pilot was going. Remember, I left a comfy six figure job with insurance years ago to take on this adventure which left me with a smile every day! Life was going great the last couple years up until now.

That all said. I consulted some legal advice since I am sunk. I was told without a doubt the only way I can come out of this is bankruptcy. The medical bills will result in me loosing my house and truck and would never go away as they would put a lien on anything I tried to do in the future until they are paid. And paying back a half-million bucks simply is not an option.

THE QUESTION:
Given this situation of these medical bills driving me into bankruptcy as the only solution for resolution, how would airlines view this?

In about 12 months I absolutely plan on applying to the Regionals to take my career to the next level. But I am in fear this may all be a lost dream now.

What upsets me is this is not from any kind of credit mis-management. It's simply from being in a pinch where things like having to eat fast food and not having medical insurance was the reality of life as a CFI.

I am fearful this bankruptcy will ruin my career prospects.

I will be grateful for honest opinions.

And even more grateful for anyone who can say they know the reality of this and how it will affect me in applying to regional airlines next year.

Thank you :dunno:

 

[derg]

I think you'll be alright.

It's not like you maxed out your credit cards, three ex-wives, a boat and have a coke habit, it's a medical bankruptcy.

Hell, there are a lot of us that are an injury away from a financially devastating hospital visit.

Great that you're recovering, I'm sorry about the bills. That sucks royally I bet.

 

[mshunter]

WOW! What a story. I feel for you and hope you make it out of all of this o.k. I know that there are a few circumstances that you can declare BK on student loans as well, but they are very few and you have to do a super good job of convincing the judge. I hope that you make it out of this with a good attitude. Good luck.

P.S. There are other options besides the airlines.


Edit to add: I was going to suggest negating the bills to a lower amount, but it's gonna be extremely hard to get even $300k down to a manageable level. And don't worry to much about the BK. My brother declared BK a few years ago. He owns a house and has good enough credit to get small business loans and owns 3 vehicles on credit. I say just relax and know that as long as you persevere and keep a positive attitude you'll be alright.

 

[thehobbit]

22,000 for a helicopter ride . No way does a flight nurse, paramedics, pilots and the helicopter cost that much to operate. It's just another example of hospital over charging their patients.

 

[TexasFlyer]

Thanks for the quick replies. It really helped ease me a bit, especially coming from such senior members on the board that have real life experience in the industry.

I'm a strong person in mind and spirit so I know I'll pull through this. And while I can not say I improve daily injury wise, I am certainly improving weekly.

Besides the career worry, the hardest part is that this is a real blow to my pride. I always been very proud to work through even my toughest months during my career transition. And even in the toughest of months, every bill got paid and I still smiled each day. After all, flying and teaching has made me realize dreams do come true with hard work.

My best memory in my whole life is when my first student did his first solo. I can't even describe the feeling I had when he got out of the airplane. I was so proud of him and felt great since I was able to give him the gift of flight. And I know he could not describe the feeling he had of his accomplishment since he almost melted on the ramp. It was a breathless moment for both of us.

I hope for many more days like these in my career. So I will work hard for me and also my future students since that is what will hopefully lead me to the next step in my aviation career. And fingers crossed I will be seen for my true colors and not just for a person who went bankrupt from some kind of mismanagement of their life since I get the impression this is what most employers assume when they find out you went bankrupt.

Guess I just need to have more faith in me and most of all, those who may interview me in the future.

Sp thanks again ya'll. From deep in the heart of Texas.

 

[TexasFlyer]

22,000 for a helicopter ride . No way does a flight nurse, paramedics, pilots and the helicopter cost that much to operate. It's just another example of hospital over charging their patients.

I don't even remember the helicopter ride. I woke up on the road side when some medics put me on a body board and slid me out from under the guard rail and then put me into an ambulance. Next thing I remember was turbine engines and some wind. That will always snap a pilot out of any comatose state...lol. But then the turbine wound up and I felt the helicopter lift off. Next thing I remember was a doctor in the ER asking if I wanted lidocaine to numb my head before he stapled it. I must have answered wrong. It hurt!

So with that, I think I should get a big discount since I do not remember the helicopter ride. Oh, and the bill breaks out like this:
BASE RATE for 1.0 Hour: $12,150
87 MILES LOADED: $9,525
--------------------------------
TOTAL DUE NOW: $21,675

Since I remember zero miles of it and only about 2 minutes, maybe I can be charged just for that. Making the bill $405 for 2 minutes of service on the base rate and no service miles.

And on overcharging. Notice the hospital room cost $4,000 a day. And there was another person in that room with me. So the shared room is making the hospital $8k a day. That's one expensive resort and you get zero privacy! And the food is awful (they actually give you too much as well in my opinion) and they wake you up ever couple hours stick you with needles and take your vitals. And a few times a day some doc comes in to cause you extreme pain by examining all your damaged body parts. At least I had the view of the heli-pad. Those helicopters were constantly on the go, so that at least offered some entertainment. But not $4,000 a day worth!

 

[LineNPilotGuy]

Glad to hear your recovering, from a fellow motorcyclist.

If you don't know about this already & they have a program like it in your area you should def check it out.

In my area CALStar and Reach (our Med-heli's) have membership programs that basically cut the cost in half or more should you have to use them.....

It looks like your in Texas but heres a link for our areas as an example, and also a link to our local motorcycling forum where you can search other peoples examples.

http://www.calstar.org/
http://www.reachair.com/membership/
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/

 

[jrh]

22,000 for a helicopter ride . No way does a flight nurse, paramedics, pilots and the helicopter cost that much to operate. It's just another example of hospital over charging their patients.

Right. Because it's free to have a helicopter and flight staff on call 24/7. And everybody always pays their bill. TexasFlyer is the only guy to ever not pay for the service.

The reality is that medical treatment costs a lot of money. We, as a society, have to decide what price we're willing to pay, or else live with a lower standard of care. We could haul everyone to the hospital via ambulance, as long as people understand there will be more fatalities as a result of this policy. We also don't really need to operate on all these cases. We could just amputate rather than repair limbs. And physical therapy isn't essential...sending a person home with their family to fend for themselves is a cheaper and easier option. That's what would be happening in a lot of third world countries. TexasFlyer's quality of life would be poor (might never walk or work again), but he'd have cheap care.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk about all this. I'm just tired of hearing people who want to have their cake and eat it, too.

For what it's worth, this is a classic example of why I buy my own health insurance, too. I pay $90/month. It has a $1500 deductible, so it's pretty worthless for routine exams and such, but it will cover the catastrophic stuff like what TexasFlyer experienced. Even CFIs can afford $90/month. I wouldn't consider going without it for precisely this reason.

But to the OP: From an employment standpoint, I think you'll be fine. I wouldn't hold it against you if I were making the decision.

 

[Lvnthedrm]

Friend of mine had a similar situation. No insurance and had to get airlifted to a major hospital(his flight cost him 30K.) At anyrate, like you he had massive bills he couldn't hope to pay off, so he declared medical bankruptcy, got everything dismissed, and 2 years later he got hired at a regional. I'd say you should be OK hopefully. Good luck.

 

[TexasFlyer]

For what it's worth, this is a classic example of why I buy my own health insurance, too. I pay $90/month. It has a $1500 deductible, so it's pretty worthless for routine exams and such, but it will cover the catastrophic stuff like what TexasFlyer experienced. Even CFIs can afford $90/month. I wouldn't consider going without it for precisely this reason.

But to the OP: From an employment standpoint, I think you'll be fine. I wouldn't hold it against you if I were making the decision.

Hope most employers think along your lines when it comes to hiring. I had Aetna up until about a year ago.

Unfortunate with my CFI pay averaging around $2000 a month take home for 80 to 120 hours a month of flight and ground paid time. Hours varied so much pending weather and student load. This year being a bit less on pay and hours due to a lower student load at the school.

So once I pay my $800 mortgage and my $300 a month student loan and the $20 internet, $50 electric/ gas, $20 water/trash, $60 car insurance, and $60cell phone I barely had enough left over to eat and put gas in my truck. And those bills were half the actual cost on the house items since I rent out the spare room in my house to keep everything as cheap as possible. And hence why I enjoyed the 40mpg my bike would get.

With things so tight in my budget, it is also why I had to cancel my insurance and cancel my cable tv along with some other lifestyle cut backs since I never wanted to miss a bill. And having only $600 to spend on food and fuel and personal bath items and such was tough to do, but I managed to squeak by and always have a few bucks left at the end of the month. But not enough for the insurance since Aetna was the cheapest I could find in Texas for a major medical plan for me at 37 years of age and a cost of about $130 a month.

Needless to say, that's peanuts compared to my current medical issues. But in the end, I still could not make the payment since if I did I would either go hungry, without deodorant and toothpaste, or not have enough fuel to commute to the airport for work.

So made the choice on that cut-back. Right or wrong it is no matter at this point. I did get good care and I will recover 90% or better. I should be able to fly again and walk again just fine. Dancing may be tough and running will probably not happen, but I will always try to improve that if possible as well. So my foot will be solid once again thanks to our quality healthcare system (although it will never quite look the same, nor will part of my leg). The bad part is, I will be financial pain and mental disappointment which will last much longer than my foot pains. It's the penalty I face for not being able to pay and I accept that responsibility fully.

I just hope and pray that once my health recovers, employers are just as understanding that I absolutely done my best and if I could negotiate any other options I certainly would since these good people who have helped me deserve to paid some reasonable amount, even if it takes me years to do it.

Oh yeah. The worst part of it all. If I had the exact same scenario but rented versus owned the house and sold my truck real quick to CarMax, I would quality for Medicaid. But the simple fact that I own (the banks owns in reality) my house eliminated me from this option which would have paid quite a but and left me with an actual manageable amount to pay back over time. I don't find that real fair, but then sometimes the rules of life are not fair. And the rules are what we have to play by.

Thanks for the comments and encouragement and honesty. I suppose I just needed a good sounding board and I always respect the opinions and advice on here. This forum has changed many lives, and I would say the most for the better. And even through all my current frustration, I have no regrets for leaving the high paying secure business I had in the past to take on this adventure. And what is now a big new challenge.

I am hopeful to get back in the air soon and begin giving the gift of flight once again. And someday I hope to just fly something that will pay the bills and offer some kind of future security in the way of benefits and pay (of course that may be asking a lot in aviation, but I know it's out there!). Until then, I still smile at the thought that I can at least get back and fly again in the future and I'll keep the emotions and stress from this on the ground in a safe place

 

[Murdoughnut]

A lot has been written about the necessity and cost of these helo flights. While I'm not sure about your situation, in a lot of cases people are being airlifted, beyond their control, for injuries that are not critical. Then they get stuck with an insane bill similar to yours.

Sorry to hear about all of this. I'm like you - take great pride in my credit, but I'd probably do the same.

 

[F9DXER]

More of a curiosity question, did your motorcycle insurance cover any of your medical expenses?

I had a friend have his car run over him because of his own stupidity (broken leg 3 places - shear talent!!) - but his auto policy coverd it.

 

[cmill]

that sucks dude, sorry to hear that. I wouldnt fret too much about the airlines getting worked up over a medical bankruptcy.

Focus on getting better. :rawk:

 

[WacoFan]

I see this from a couple of points of view. Do me a favor though - don't hold the hospital, your physicians or therapists responsible for this - they don't really set the rates that are charged at all. Just like you don't want someone like CalCapt making decisions based purely on economics, you don't want your doctor making any decisions based upon costs - only what you need and what will be best for you. Also, for those that think that the uninsured don't get medical care in this country...well, read the OP's post - sure sounds like at least one uninsured did get medical care. Point is - continue to listen to your doctors and don't let any of your angst bleed over into a distrust of what they are telling you - that would be detrimental to your recovery.

Second - well...the previous administration created TARP to bailout the banks and AIG. The current administration has allowed the bailed out to receive billions in bonuses after they ran their companies into the ground. Chrysler owed hundreds of billions of dollars to people (teachers and other public pensions) that had purchased their debt (made them a loan). The current administration wiped that debt out and gave a huge portion of the company to the UAW. My question is, why would you feel bad for acting in your best interest (Declaring BK) when the pillars of our society are allowed to abrogate some contracts (the Chrysler deal) and stick the tax payers with the bill for bad decisions they have made...all while paying themselves billions of dollars? Seriously, I couldn't tell you to do anything except declare a medical BK with good conscience. Please do not feel bad for this - you made one mistake in planning (not having some kind of catastrophic coverage) - but I assume you've learned from that mistake. Why you would allow your pride to be wounded by declaring BK while people on Wall Street, aided by our Congress, run roughshod over the bounds of acceptable behavior are beyond me - it is like you are playing a game based on the rules of baseball, and everyone else is playing football. I suggest you look at yourself in the mirror as someone that is playing by the same rules as the Wall Street guys (doing whatever is in YOUR best interest) and not let it wound your pride. Just my opinion - and I say that as a Board member of a large non-profit hospital that has many cases such as yours all the time - it isn't like this is a peripheral thing for me. This is an example of "moral hazzard" that Hank Paulson talked about (as he was dealing huundreds of billions to the banks) - but hey - the precedent has been set. Don't play baseball when everyone else is playing football.

 

[exneophyte]

More of a curiosity question, did your motorcycle insurance cover any of your medical expenses?

I had a friend have his car run over him because of his own stupidity (broken leg 3 places - shear talent!!) - but his auto policy coverd it.

If you haven't looked into the motorcycle insurance angle, I'd recommend it. I know in Minnesota at least, even if you did have both medical and motorcycle insurance, the bill would first go to the motorcycle insurance and they would cover it up until whatever their limit is. Then it would move onto the medical insurance which in this case the bill would then move to you after the motorcycle insurance people paid their share.

Don't let your pride stand in the way of declaring bankruptcy. I'm sure you had to take a bite of humble pie when you left the six figure job to go fly airplanes for much less. Declaring a bankruptcy would just be taking another bite. It is a tool to protect you so don't be afraid to use it, otherwise this nasty, unfortunate incident will continue to haunt you.

Whatever you do, feel better and stay strong.

 

[meritflyer]

Flying doesn't pay all that great.

I don't understand when people will get it.

 

[Muff3n]

I really feel for you man. That really seems like a tough situation to be in. Health insurance is pretty important though, the bills can add up extremely quick. I don't think that you going bankrupt is going to hurt your career chances though, especially as it is for medical reasons. That doesn't look nearly as bad as if you had just went on a spending spree for a year and went broke from overspending.

Just keep a positive attitude about it, and do as much research as you possibly can on the situation. I would highly suggest you try to look into the motorcycle insurance policy and make sure that there is no way that it can't at least pay for some of your medical expenses. At this point, anything that it would pay would be a great help to you. With a good attitude you can work this out and continue on with your career.

 

[syntrikz]

Keep on recovering man. I hope you don't remember too much of the accident. I remember mine up until the exact moment that my head hit the side of the van. Not a very fond memory. I was in the same position as you in april 2009 and I got hit by an inattentive driver. I had about 10,000 in medical bills that eventually got paid by the other drivers insurance company (which they were reluctant to do). I ended up VERY lucky with a concussion and an out-of-wack-back.
Keep on keepin on

 

[greaper007]

Hope most employers think along your lines when it comes to hiring. I had Aetna up until about a year ago.

Unfortunate with my CFI pay averaging around $2000 a month take home for 80 to 120 hours a month of flight and ground paid time. Hours varied so much pending weather and student load. This year being a bit less on pay and hours due to a lower student load at the school.

So once I pay my $800 mortgage and my $300 a month student loan and the $20 internet, $50 electric/ gas, $20 water/trash, $60 car insurance, and $60cell phone I barely had enough left over to eat and put gas in my truck. And those bills were half the actual cost on the house items since I rent out the spare room in my house to keep everything as cheap as possible. And hence why I enjoyed the 40mpg my bike would get.

With things so tight in my budget, it is also why I had to cancel my insurance and cancel my cable tv along with some other lifestyle cut backs since I never wanted to miss a bill. And having only $600 to spend on food and fuel and personal bath items and such was tough to do, but I managed to squeak by and always have a few bucks left at the end of the month. But not enough for the insurance since Aetna was the cheapest I could find in Texas for a major medical plan for me at 37 years of age and a cost of about $130 a month.

Needless to say, that's peanuts compared to my current medical issues. But in the end, I still could not make the payment since if I did I would either go hungry, without deodorant and toothpaste, or not have enough fuel to commute to the airport for work.

So made the choice on that cut-back. Right or wrong it is no matter at this point. I did get good care and I will recover 90% or better. I should be able to fly again and walk again just fine. Dancing may be tough and running will probably not happen, but I will always try to improve that if possible as well. So my foot will be solid once again thanks to our quality healthcare system (although it will never quite look the same, nor will part of my leg). The bad part is, I will be financial pain and mental disappointment which will last much longer than my foot pains. It's the penalty I face for not being able to pay and I accept that responsibility fully.

I just hope and pray that once my health recovers, employers are just as understanding that I absolutely done my best and if I could negotiate any other options I certainly would since these good people who have helped me deserve to paid some reasonable amount, even if it takes me years to do it.

Oh yeah. The worst part of it all. If I had the exact same scenario but rented versus owned the house and sold my truck real quick to CarMax, I would quality for Medicaid. But the simple fact that I own (the banks owns in reality) my house eliminated me from this option which would have paid quite a but and left me with an actual manageable amount to pay back over time. I don't find that real fair, but then sometimes the rules of life are not fair. And the rules are what we have to play by.

Thanks for the comments and encouragement and honesty. I suppose I just needed a good sounding board and I always respect the opinions and advice on here. This forum has changed many lives, and I would say the most for the better. And even through all my current frustration, I have no regrets for leaving the high paying secure business I had in the past to take on this adventure. And what is now a big new challenge.

I am hopeful to get back in the air soon and begin giving the gift of flight once again. And someday I hope to just fly something that will pay the bills and offer some kind of future security in the way of benefits and pay (of course that may be asking a lot in aviation, but I know it's out there!). Until then, I still smile at the thought that I can at least get back and fly again in the future and I'll keep the emotions and stress from this on the ground in a safe place

That sucks, when I was a CFI I was able to talk my dad into paying for catastrophic insurance for me. I think it was only 30 a month. Is there anyway a CFI can get Medicaid? All three of my nieces have a degenerative disease and their treatment is very expensive. My sister and her husband make less than 30,000 (one working both in grad school). His insurance was horrible so they did some research and found out that they qualified for food stamps and medicaid.

Considering that you paid taxes on a 6 figure job for years I wouldn't have any shame about taking a little bit from the system. You more than covered your share in the past, and it looks like you'll cover your share in the future. I'm pretty sure that 2000 a month would be low enough to qualify. Especially if you start moving funds around to other family members names. That's what my other sister did to get food stamps when she worked for americorps for a year.

I think more pilots should apply for state assistance and let everyone they know that they have to get food stamps in order to eat on what they're paid.

 

[greaper007]

Flying doesn't pay all that great.

I don't understand when people will get it.

What careers pay great these days? I can't think of any of my friends from college that are rolling in it. I've been out of aviation a year now and pretty much gave up the job search for now. I left aviation mostly to be home more, but I haven't been able to find any jobs that would pay enough to cover day care expenses and pay for work related costs.

Lets face it, the last generation sold our future down the river with de-regulation.