Bankruptcy from the most expensive helicopter ride ever!

[Goonie]

Funny how people say they can't afford health insurance yet have a motorcycle, smoking habit or other expensive hobby - heck the OP is even a home owner. Sorry buddy no sympathy from me. I would love $6,000 to spend on something fun or buy a house! Instead I spend that money (over 10% of my income) on insuring my family's welfare and you and people like you are the reason it is so expensive. Thanks for making my life harder while you were out having a good time on your bike!

Are you serious?

Seems like you are looking to go against the grain on this thread just for the hell of it.

 

[greaper007]

Are you serious?

Seems like you are looking to go against the grain on this thread just for the hell of it.

He sort of has a point, even if it's dickish. I think the OP knows he made a big mistake by going sans insurance, especially if he used to work in the industry. And even more especially if you engage in very risky activities like riding motorcycles and flying small planes. I was paying for catastrophic coverage with a credit card at one point, to me it made more sense to have the debt than to be unable to afford health care (if you can follow that logic).

That said, I've made plenty of costly mistakes in my life, and I'm sure I'm due for a few more. Like Doug said this could have been many of us while we were CFI's weighing the cost of eating or having health insurance.

 

[greaper007]

In general what is suggested here would be considered fraud. Bankruptcy Courts tend to frown on it, and will usually reverse things like this......yes they can and will do this. As a rule, most BK judges won't take your only transportation and homestead laws in Texas will usually allow you to keep your house.

My best advise, Get a well recommended BK lawyer, follow his advise and don't take advise from forum lawyers. Then, think shelter, food, transportation.... in that order. Pay your mortgage, feed your family, buy gas to get to work, then and only then, start paying everything else.

Read up on the federal debt collection act so you can use it in your favor, you'll be far ahead of the deadbeats that will start calling you unceasingly wanting to collect on bills.

True, it's probably something you would have to do before you get into the situation. I used to work at a golf club that had a small Italian American underworld contingency... One such member of this group wanted to become a member of the club, but as he told the owner "I don't have a credit card, my car, house, boat are all in my mother's name. Will you take cash for the membership fee?"

Now when I was a CFI I didn't have any assets beyond a 16 year old car. If I did though I would probably shift the ownership of said assets to my mother's name before I undertook a risky venture like going without health insurance or starting a small business.

 

[I_Money]

Are you serious?

Seems like you are looking to go against the grain on this thread just for the hell of it.

Not going with the grain just for the hell of it!! I was disappointed no one had pointed out the obvious. If he was living in a apt, driving a 94 Honda, and had 2 kids he was struggling to feed then mu response would have been different. He wasn't he just didn't want to buy insurance and you and I get screwed because of it.

 

[z987k]

not all motorcycles are $6000+. I bought mine for all of $500 and spent a little bit of time fixing it up. Now it's reliable cheap transportation that I really do need. I've saved much more than $500 in gas over the time I've owned it. Also with this economy, you can get a very nice reliable bike for sub 3.

 

[jrh]

Not going with the grain just for the hell of it!! I was disappointed no one had pointed out the obvious. If he was living in a apt, driving a 94 Honda, and had 2 kids he was struggling to feed then mu response would have been different. He wasn't he just didn't want to buy insurance and you and I get screwed because of it.

This is pretty much my opinion, too. I just couldn't find a good way to say it without coming off like a jerk. Thanks for being a jerk on my behalf

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I feel bad for you, but this isn't the end of the world. Soon, you will be walking and the bankruptcy will be the least of your worries. Like Waco said, let Uncle Sugar bail you out like they did the fat cats.

 

[The Gardener]

I feel bad for you, but this isn't the end of the world. Soon, you will be walking and the bankruptcy will be the least of your worries. Like Waco said, let Uncle Sugar bail you out like they did the fat cats.

Yeah, no worries about he bk, my insurance will help cover that.

 

[I_Money]

not all motorcycles are $6000+. I bought mine for all of $500 and spent a little bit of time fixing it up. Now it's reliable cheap transportation that I really do need. I've saved much more than $500 in gas over the time I've owned it. Also with this economy, you can get a very nice reliable bike for sub 3.

This doesn't look like a $500 bike, in fact I decided to look it up - $19,000 before taxes and customization. That is about 17 years of catastrophic health insurance!

 

[gliderboy]

In reading the original post, some people (not me, of course) might be tempted to question the values of a country which so enthusiastically squanders its national treasure on wars in obscure third world countries such as Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, rather than spending that money on bettering the lives of its own people by, for example, establishing affordable national health insurance, such as one finds in most civilized countries.

 

[I_Money]

In reading the original post, some people (not me, of course) might be tempted to question the values of a country which so enthusiastically squanders its national treasure on wars in obscure third world countries such as Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, rather than spending that money on bettering the lives of its own people by, for example, establishing affordable national health insurance, such as one finds in most civilized countries.

The problem of healthcare isn't one of money - it is one of management and expectations. 60-80% of healthcare spending is in the last 6 months of life, let people die six months earlier and you have made it affordable. Our society views death as being 'bad' so we try and hold it off at all costs. This has lead to more suffering than it has better lives - if you go into any hospital you would be AMAZED at what you saw. 91 year old with advanced Alzheimer requiring round the clock care still full codes, people with a GCS of 4 from Parkinson, yet is still being treated to hold off the inevitable - rather than going to Palliative care. Before our country can fix healthcare we have to fix our own views on death - it shouldn't be that hard. The majority of our country goes to church on Sunday to show God they love him, so they should be quite excited to meet him sooner!

 

[gliderboy]

Excellent observation!

 

[TexasFlyer]

Is there anyway you can put your assets in your mom, dad's, sister's, other person you can trusts name? When I bought our house we put all our debt in my name and put the house in my wife's name, then once the transaction was complete we did a "quickdeed" (I believe it was called) and put it in both of our names.

Is there anyway you can transfer assets like you car and home to a trusted family member/friend before you declare bankruptcy? Do this right and you can possibly come out better than before you started, just look at the great American bankruptcy examples like Donald Trump!

Problem is my parents live in Ohio and for me to do such they would have to qualify to carry about a $125k loan (about what is owed on the home). They been hit hard by the economy to where their retirement is half what it was in 2001 and thier home has two mortgages for about 40% more than than they can value it now. And he owns an apartment building that was part of his retirement and of 4 units 2 are always empty for the last year and it is only worth about 50% of what the loan is now since Dayton Ohio is in the tank economically. So given their situation, they would never be able to qualify for such. The only other person who I could trust is my sister, but she is in just as bad shape since she is unemployed EMS worker with 2 kids and a husband who is trying to make it on his UPS truck driving wages. They are maxed out like so much of middle America. They are all one small catastrophe away from my situation. Man, this paragraph makes me need a :beer:

Now my other asset, the truck, is 100% paid for. I can move that to them for $1 and that's out of my name. I just have to get named on their insurance policy which would be no problem. And I would just pay for that policy.

So the house seems to be the real problem. No matter how much I hate to do it in this market, I may put my house on the market for sale and let it go for a reasonable price. Then I can take the equity and pay off my student loan since I can not keep money in my bank account. I can find an apartment for less than $500 a month in San Antonio that is decent, so that will be okay. Then anything left over money wise, if anything left over, I will distribute to some of those medical bills just for good karma. And I need good Karma right now since my skin graft is not taking as well as we hoped (just found that out today).

Oh, and there is also the possibility I can hold my house out of BK in Texas. So I think I can still keep it and pay on it as normal and nothing affects the house. If this is true, that will be the best case more than likely. Although the best case would be hitting the lottery to pay everyone. But I don't play the lotto so that won't happen.

I will learn a lot more about my options soon. Tomorrow I am going to get in contact with Legal Aid. I have a friend in Ohio who is an Attorney and he claimed BK a year ago since his business went south when the banks froze his credit he used to handle cases (mind you he always paid extra and never missed a payment since most of my friends are quite proud people like myself... if that's the right word). So he told me quite a lot of useful info, but of course he is an attorney in Ohio so he knows nothing of Texas law. But he did tell me to contact Legal Aid since they may be able to help me given that I have no money left and I am 30 days from not making a mortgage payment.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

What careers pay great these days? I can't think of any of my friends from college that are rolling in it.

It is sad that after 10 years in my profession, the most I ever made was my first year out of college. The annual 5% pay cut has never really stopped happening, and adjusted for inflation, I make half what I did as a college hire now.

 

[TexasFlyer]

a little OT, but as a motorcyclist, I am curios as to the gear you were wearing that allowed this much damage to yourself in a solo crash.

Boots, pants, and short sleeve shirt. Damage was not much to me except the foot. I went down at about 30mph.

Two broken ribs on left side and broken collar bone on left side from the fall most likely.

Very little road rash. Just a slight scrape on my shoulder, elbow area, and knee on the left side. No more than if you slide into third base on the baseball field and ripped through your uniform.

My head hit the guard rail. I did not have a helmet on. But the head injury was very minor. 5 staples fixed it and they came out 3 weeks later. It was a very low speed fall due to me avoiding some debris in the road and then the front end washing out on gravel at the apex of the turn.

The foot is the only problem. And if not for the foot, the medical bills would have been reasonable since I would have went to the ER by ambulance and been out of there in a couple hours never to return for those injuries. But the foot landed me all these problems.

What happened was the bike hit the guard rail and came back at me. When the bike did that the rear wheel still spinning at maybe 3,000 RPM came across my boot. It tore off the top of my boot, sock, and foot. It did not break a single bone since there was little pressure. It was only the spinning tire that tore everything off. The sole of my boot and part of the boot above the ankle was still attached to me. Just a very rare injury I was told. Picture a medical book where they show every bone and tendon in your foot but no muscle tissue or flesh. That's what it looked like.

So as I sit now, all road rash is healed completely. You can only see a slight discolor which will fade over a year for sure. My collar bone feels 80% healed and my ribs about 70% healed. I still can not bear much weight on the ribs or collar bone with some pain, but they are okay. My foot is the issue. The skin grafting is just done and it hurts a lot at times. I am still not allowed to bear weight on it for another week or two and I have to keep it above my hips as much as possible. Hence the wheel chair and being stuck in bed. Crutches would work if not for my ribs and collar bone, but until they heal I am stuck in the chair once I can leave my leg down.

So if it were not for the foot injury, I would be in okay shape.

 

[greaper007]

It is sad that after 10 years in my profession, the most I ever made was my first year out of college. The annual 5% pay cut has never really stopped happening, and adjusted for inflation, I make half what I did as a college hire now.

My wife has a PhD, left academia, and is still making sub 6 figures as a psychologist.

 

[Jayrock]

Did you at least log the flight time?

I don't think the airlines are going to mind if you have filed bankruptcy. For some airlines it's standard operating procedure.

And as someone who once commuted on a motorcycle, best of luck with your recovery.

 

[TexasFlyer]

This doesn't look like a $500 bike, in fact I decided to look it up - $19,000 before taxes and customization. That is about 17 years of catastrophic health insurance!

Thanks for noticing. I love that bike. But it will never be the same as it has $14,900 of damages to it since the frame bent at the triple tree. And you are far wrong on your price estimate. That bike cost me over $40,000 and is built on a 2009 frame with parts ranging from 2008 to 2009 along with many custom fabricated parts.

Now, if you read in a past post why I have such a bike and a house of my own, it is because I made more in one year than I bet you will ever make in any one year of your life; unless of course you are on par with the Kennedy's or Trump or are one of my peers from my old industry who are jealous I went to pursue a dream and you are stuck in an office all day on the phone for 10+ hours making your $1,000 a day. And I would never go back to that grind! I wash my hands of that business.

That is my past career so I prefer to keep it there. I just brought it up again since you seem to be jealous of those who maybe be or have been financially successful. And so so you have even more of an idea of what I was. I owned a Lotus Esprit once back in 2001 when I was a young that I paid mostly cash for... does that anger you? It cost me over $80,000 for such a car. I of course sold it in 2002 when the economy crashed around me since I had employees to take care of since my biggest client ended up in a building unexpectedly. And by me selling that car and other luxury items my employees got paid their salaries (the right thing to do!!!). But I won't bore you with that. Maybe someday we'll meet in an airport so I can entertain you with all the boring stories of rags to riches and back to rags.

Being a CFI is my current career. So I prefer to focus on my last 14 months as a CFI. I live my life on my CFI wage. After all, I sold all my past assets and all else I owned except the house, truck, and bike in order to live for over a year and go to flight school full time at the school of my choice with only taking out a $30k loan. I came out of school and still am debt free except for that loan and a secondary loan I took against the bike to help me through my time of unemployment as a non-working CFI post graduation.

And the bike is current. Lets talk about that some more since it is a current item in my life (or shall I say was). That bike was purchased and took over a year of production to build and conceive with the help of the dealer and Harley in making some custom fabricated parts. But it was paid for back in 2007 right after I made the leap to flight school (August 2007). I did not take delivery of the bike until May 2009 since it took that long to design and build even though it was paid for over a year prior.

The bike was my REWARD for making the leap from a terrible career that paid me well to the best career ever that pays me nothing. It's a custom bike that is worth half of what I paid for it because it is a custom bike. No one wants a custom bike in the used market as they depreciate like a falling rock. And again, that was paid for long ago! At a time when I had very good medical coverage may I add.

How about putting a picture of my truck up as well. It does not anger you that I drive a 2006 Toyota Tacoma X-Cab with all the bells and whistles. I bought that in 2006 for cash. Well, actually I traded in my 2004 or 05 Mini-Cooper S convertible and gave the dealer $4,000 in addition to the car to drive that truck home. It was actually the Mini that I paid cash for. But either way, I had no loan on the truck ever. The truck still books for around $13,000 to $14,000 trade-in value and I still have it in my driveway. Such a luxury for a CFI. But then, why would I get rid of it when it's reliable transport and I plan to keep it for another 5-10 years since it's a Toyota and it should run until either the gas pedal gets stuck or it gets 200,000 miles on it (which ever happens first). And I earned this in my last career. I did not buy this as a CFI.

And my house. The house I purchased in 2003. The house that the mortgage cost the same as reasonable rent cost here in San Antonio. So why would I sell the house when it cost me no more than renting an apartment here? Selling it would have been stupid since the payment cost me no more than rent. So the house I bought in my old career angers you too.

So the house and truck make absolute financial sense and no one can argue that one. It would be dumb to sell the truck and get a unreliable $3,000 car. And it would be dumb to sell a house when it cost no more than rent. It's not exactly a mansion. The bike is a weird variable. I agree on that. So lets visit that again.

Lets look at my last 2 years of my life now. What did I purchase? I bought food. I bought two movie tickets. I bought some clothes from Walmart which I am wearing now. I paid my vehicle insurance (by the way, you realize motorcycle insurance is only $15 a month before you go down that route and I save much more than that each month in gas at $3 a gallon). I paid my mortgage (which we'll call rent since it cost the same). And I do have internet and a cell phone since those are essential in today's society.

But I do not have cable TV since I can not afford it. I eat fast food more than I should because I can not afford even Denny's at times. And I did not pay for medical insurance. I had medical up until about 12 months ago but I had to cancel the TV and the Insurance due to my student load dropping at the school. And since I did not want to have a no pay, I just cancelled it since the $130 insurance and the $50 cable TV had to go. I could not cut nothing else since there was nothing else to cut! So I am no different than any other CFI over the last couple years. I live like a CFI does. Month to month. It's all we can do.

And do not hold my past success against me. You may still wonder why I kept that bike. It's simple. That bike was a trophy I kept from my past success as a business partner. It was what I held onto as a reminder of past success and the success I planned to have in aviation in the future. It's all mental. I mental REWARD for meeting goals.

That bike is the only thing I held onto from my past that would be considered extravagant. After all. my truck is just a late model truck now and my house is a very modest two bedroom one bath house (which you already seen since you found my Myspace page). And admit it. That is a sharp bike. A modest house. And a reliable late model truck. So can a person not have one trophy from his past success which he also holds as a tribute to his future success he plans to have? I believe I earned that long ago. Oh, and I will earn it all back again!!!

And in my current life as a CFI, no such purchases are or ever would be made. It is not possible.

I hope someday when you earn success, you also reward yourself. And if things change, keep one trophy for yourself to remember what you are working towards. I hope this helps you understand a bit. And I hope you (and your family if you are married), someday can earn all your dreams as well.

So don't be so quick to judge. I would not wish this situation on anyone. And yes, even with insurance, things like this can happen to you. Long term job loss or the dental side of insurance, which is very weak for most everyone, can change your life quick. I just hope this does not happen to you or anyone else.

Now here is another fact. Some day I will build another bike. A bike greater than that one. And I will ride that same route. Why? I have a ride to finish and goals to accomplish. I hope this does not anger you. But if you fall down, you have to get up. This is the first time I am not sure how to get back up. But I will get up. And when I do, expect to see me on a new $40k+ monument once I can afford to do so. And whether that be one year from now or twenty years from now, I will be building that bike for you as well.

How will it be built for you too? Because that bike will be built now for a new reason. Not one to remind me of my past success. But this time. It will be built as a tribute to the human spirit. My human spirit and yours. That spirit that with god's direction allows us to pick our self back up and ride again! And fly again! And live again! :beer:

Oh yes. One last thing. Maybe someday we will fly together. We clearly come from different places in life and probably have most different views on things. But I bet we share the same passion for aviation. And with that, we have a starting point for conversation. I hope to learn about your successes someday, which means it's a story of how you overcome tough times as well.

 

[FlyGuy9k4]

Boots, pants, and short sleeve shirt. Damage was not much to me except the foot. I went down at about 30mph.

Two broken ribs on left side and broken collar bone on left side from the fall most likely.

Very little road rash. Just a slight scrape on my shoulder, elbow area, and knee on the left side. No more than if you slide into third base on the baseball field and ripped through your uniform.

My head hit the guard rail. I did not have a helmet on. But the head injury was very minor. 5 staples fixed it and they came out 3 weeks later. It was a very low speed fall due to me avoiding some debris in the road and then the front end washing out on gravel at the apex of the turn.

The foot is the only problem. And if not for the foot, the medical bills would have been reasonable since I would have went to the ER by ambulance and been out of there in a couple hours never to return for those injuries. But the foot landed me all these problems.

What happened was the bike hit the guard rail and came back at me. When the bike did that the rear wheel still spinning at maybe 3,000 RPM came across my boot. It tore off the top of my boot, sock, and foot. It did not break a single bone since there was little pressure. It was only the spinning tire that tore everything off. The sole of my boot and part of the boot above the ankle was still attached to me. Just a very rare injury I was told. Picture a medical book where they show every bone and tendon in your foot but no muscle tissue or flesh. That's what it looked like.

So as I sit now, all road rash is healed completely. You can only see a slight discolor which will fade over a year for sure. My collar bone feels 80% healed and my ribs about 70% healed. I still can not bear much weight on the ribs or collar bone with some pain, but they are okay. My foot is the issue. The skin grafting is just done and it hurts a lot at times. I am still not allowed to bear weight on it for another week or two and I have to keep it above my hips as much as possible. Hence the wheel chair and being stuck in bed. Crutches would work if not for my ribs and collar bone, but until they heal I am stuck in the chair once I can leave my leg down.

So if it were not for the foot injury, I would be in okay shape.

Im sorry for your bad luck- but I can no longer support your cause on here. You opt for no insurance- sure ok.. but then you DON'T WEAR A HELMET and then complain about not being able to survive anymore bc of the bills??? Sorry but I sacrifice LOTS of things i'd love to do, hell, id even love to make one extra student loan payment a month if i didn't have to pay for insurance, but I do specifically for this type of reasoning.

Head injuries are the most common reasons for life flight - someone correct me if im wrong, but that's what my neighbor says. (Medivac pilot for Memorial Herman here in Houston) All it takes is an open head wound or being unconscious and its almost an automatic life flight- brain swelling or ICP (intracranial pressure), or subdural hematoma happens very fast, hence THE FAST RIDE you got to the hospital among your other injuries.

Again- sorry for your bad luck, everyone on here is GLAD that you are doing better, and there is nothing you can do about what happened in the past but you CAN spread the word to everyone you know that doesn't have insurance to at least get catastrophic insurance at the minimum.

Good luck with the rest of your recovery!
-Brandon

 

[TexasFlyer]

DON'T WEAR A HELMET and then complain about not being able to survive anymore bc of the bills???

I'm not looking for sympathy, just advice. I do respect your honest opinion though and your previous advice. And especially the advice on insurance. I would say at this point if you can not afford it, cash advance a couple grand off a credit card and hope you can pay for it that way and in the future when you get money from a decent paying aviation job pay back the credit card slowly. But that is hind sight for me unfortunately.

On the helmet thing. It's bad luck my foot got 'de-gloved' as the surgeon said. And it's probably god luck my head only had a minor cut and was actually the least of all my injury. But in the future (way distant future), when I do get back on a bike, there will be no helmet in the state of Texas unless the law changes. If I get flamed for that, that is okay. I am just too honest sometimes. But I rather respond with the truth and face the consequence than not respond at all since everyone on this board earns my respect. And every post here has been a valued opinion to me!

I can say this though. There will be insurance. Even if I have to beg, borrow, and steal for it. Okay, not steal for it. But I will beg and borrow for it!