Bangor Maine - private jet w/8 crash

Its been a while since I've posted here, but I don't have much to add other than that the city of BGR does all the de-icing at the airport, airlines, and private, including frequent widebody charters, and they have been doing it for decades. This de-iceing would not have been done by your stereotypical "FBO de-ice crew" or budget service provider. Not saying that it couldn't have been a de-ice issue, but I would trust them to do it right more than most. The ground track shows that they stopped in front of the FBO on the SE end of the field, then went to the de-ice pad to the NW of the international terminal then went to take off
 
derg said:
I've de-iced more than year than I have in the last five, it's almost comical.

The relief FO told the captain trainee that the aircraft was clear. Since he was a first-time captain, we had talked about the 'trust but verify' aspects of his job and while demonstrating the safety equipment in the cabin, I showed him where to look from the cabin and "I'll be damned, the aircraft
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OldTownPilot said:
Its been a while since I've posted here, but I don't have much to add other than that the city of BGR does all the de-icing at the airport, airlines, and private, including frequent widebody charters, and they have been doing it for decades. This de-iceing would not have been done by your stereotypical "FBO de-ice crew" or budget service provider. Not saying that it couldn't have been a de-ice issue, but I would trust them to do it right more than most. The ground track shows that they stopped in front of the FBO on the SE end of the field, then went to the de-ice pad to the NW of the international terminal then went to take off
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I think I read that both Allegiant and Breeze went back to the gate after deicing due to failing the pretakeoff contamination check.

Just something that might add color to all of the speculation happening here.

That said.... F ICE. 😇
 
Wardogg said:
Our shop pays for a holdover time app it’s updated every year. In 5 years I’ve never had to use it.
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Ours is like the only piece of software that works well at AA. It automatically fetches the metar, it preloads the brands of fluid at the field that you’re at, it starts the timer, and knows the HOT based on conditions and type/brand. It even has the aircraft specific configuration checklists built in.
 
CoffeeIcePapers said:
Ours is like the only piece of software that works well at AA. It automatically fetches the metar, it preloads the brands of fluid at the field that you’re at, it starts the timer, and knows the HOT based on conditions and type/brand. It even has the aircraft specific configuration checklists built in.
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That sounds like the one we just started to use. It’s pretty slick.
 
On the bright side, since "important" people were killed, GOM and SOP icing procedures will be improved....eventually

(by instruction of the insurance companies)

and by "improved" I mean made absurdly complicated resulting in no real, tangible safety improvements.

but, no... check your Holdover Tables, because they're frakkin' useful...
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I think I read that both Allegiant and Breeze went back to the gate after deicing due to failing the pretakeoff contamination check.

Just something that might add color to all of the speculation happening here.

That said.... F ICE. 😇
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Yes, F ICE. All forms of it.

I'd have to listen to the liveatc archive again, but I do remember Allegiant going back talking about needing a mile of vis or a certain RVR because they didn't have a takeoff alternate.

I don't live in Maine any more, but from what I understand from friends that I've been messaging with is that "the storm" started not long before the accident, and it's still snowing there where most of the country is well i to recovery mode now.
 
-17C. At 3/4 SM that's moderate snow if we derive it from prevailing visibility. Just looked it up for curiosity's sake and the holdover time for a generic Type IV in those conditions is 2-7 min. That's some nasty weather.
 
luke3 said:
-17C. At 3/4 SM that's moderate snow if we derive it from prevailing visibility. Just looked it up for curiosity's sake and the holdover time for a generic Type IV in those conditions is 2-7 min. That's some nasty weather.
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How long does it take to spray a challenger? Thinking your HOT would be close to expired by the time you got done with the type 4
 
luke3 said:
-17C. At 3/4 SM that's moderate snow if we derive it from prevailing visibility. Just looked it up for curiosity's sake and the holdover time for a generic Type IV in those conditions is 2-7 min. That's some nasty weather.
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Also, that’s dang cold for that intense of snow!
 
T/O w/FSII said:
As a ex corporate guy who did this exact kind of flying…aka, small part 91 operation with 1 plane.

No one uses hold over times and nobody has an app for that.

They literally had no idea. 100% guaranteed.
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As former part 135 guy…. We didn’t have the app, but we 100% had the HOT tables and though we couldn’t use them as part of an approved deicing program, we 100% used them as a decision making guide. As in, if we didn’t think we’d be able to get airborne in the holdover time, we didn’t bother trying.
 
Roger Roger said:
As former part 135 guy…. We didn’t have the app, but we 100% had the HOT tables and though we couldn’t use them as part of an approved deicing program, we 100% used them as a decision making guide. As in, if we didn’t think we’d be able to get airborne in the holdover time, we didn’t bother trying.
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135 we absolutely did the best we could. But a couple Houston Texas based guys who see this weather maybe once a year? Rare
 
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