Bangor Maine - private jet w/8 crash

[Pilot Fighter]

In Riyadh, I’d occasionally call ARFF for sand and dust removal during preflight.

Outside of KSA, I’ve faced a few sketchy deice situations. Thankfully, a Saudi Imam trusted an American atheist to safeguard his family and I never got any resistance when I cancelled a flight.

My relationship with a Saudi Imam and prince has been one of the most satisfying relationships I’ve had. His love of his family trumped faith and the en shallah mindset.

His dad was a pearl diver. All he wanted was somebody that valued life and the lives of he family. He trusted me to stand up to his • sons and tell everybody to go back to the hotel.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

That's from hazy memory of my *extremely* dog-earred copy of a collection of Flying Magazine "Aftermath" columns (back when Flying Magazine wasn't just basically an advertisement for ways to kill yourself if you're rich). $10 says that particular article was written by Peter Garrison, he was the best.

Haven't seen that book for ~15 years, but I still (sort of) remember things like this. Now ask me what I ate for lunch yesterday. No idea.

Not exactly peer-reviewed research but we used to crash a bunch of planes for dumb reasons.

As a teen mil dependent, flew all over the US chasing good skiing. Mostly. DC-9. 14 or 15, spending time up front - magic.

 

[T/O w/FSII]

Not exactly peer-reviewed research but we used to crash a bunch of planes for dumb reasons.

We use too, but we still do too.

- Mitch Hedberg

 

[Boris Badenov]

My relationship with a Saudi Imam and prince has been one of the most satisfying relationships I’ve had. His love of his family trumped faith and the en shallah mindset.

People are mostly the same (in a good way). Problem is that all of these good people keep finding a way to support the 3% in their sociopathic lunacy. As we are currently witnessing yet again. I have no idea what one does about that.

 

[I_Money]

I’m surprised they didn’t opt for Gander!

 

[Pilot Fighter]

People are mostly the same (in a good way). Problem is that all of these good people keep finding a way to support the 3% in their sociopathic lunacy. As we are currently witnessing yet again. I have no idea what one does about that.

Yeah, I have relatives that want me to join their Klan meetings. If they invite my black daughter,
I’m in.

You undershot the mark, the moderates in the ME support the radicals - that has consequences.

 

[derg]

Pardon my 121 friends.

We roll up in a big jet, deicing starts, we slide out, take off and don’t give it a second thought.

Now if you’re 91, you’ve got to find it, look at the massive bill for it, hope they’ve done it correctly and (???)

“I know we just dropped $8K on deicing, but we need it for third time…”

 

[///AMG]

Not helping the case for us from having to do the “walk of shame” after deice….

Tbh though, i REALLY do not get why people make a big deal about deice in 121. Youre paid by the minute, you dont pay the bill….just do it thoroughly and right ffs. If in doubt, even the slightest, call iceman, run the procedures and checklist. Of ALL the things people are concerned with “newer” FOs being exposed to before upgrade, why the f do we make deice a big deal?

I don't consider it to be a "big deal", but it can introduce additional complexity at certain airports, and for us NB peeps, it can turn that lovely 12 hr layover into straight min 10, or I guess could be on go-home leg, or whatever other reason a delay becomes annoying. None of those are reasons not to do it, you have to and you do it anyway, but those kinds of things I think make people annoyed by it.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Was that wrong? In this case yes. BGR airport runs the De ice for both GA at 121 at the same pad.

But you wouldn’t know that. So maybe ask the question next time *before* the answer

Oh okay, good to know.

 

[Roger Roger]

I don't consider it to be a "big deal", but it can introduce additional complexity at certain airports, and for us NB peeps, it can turn that lovely 12 hr layover into straight min 10, or I guess could be on go-home leg, or whatever other reason a delay becomes annoying. None of those are reasons not to do it, you have to and you do it anyway, but those kinds of things I think make people annoyed by it.

that and, you or I are over in the right seat flipping switches like it’s the god damned Apollo 11 and trying to monitor like 3 radio frequencies while the captain waxes eloquent about his boat/airplane/second home in Vegas and makes $6 a minute

 

[tcco94]

Pardon my 121 friends.

We roll up in a big jet, deicing starts, we slide out, take off and don’t give it a second thought.

Now if you’re 91, you’ve got to find it, look at the massive bill for it, hope they’ve done it correctly and (???)

“I know we just dropped $8K on deicing, but we need it for third time…”

To be fair just because we are 121 we shouldn’t just assume it’s done correctly. Most of these jobs are entry level jobs and I’ve worked ramp for a few years. It’s not the brightest selection thrown in buckets. Outside of hubs it’s usually the most junior thing given to a ramper to do…

 

[tcco94]

So…do we know the fluid type that BGR has? Now I’m curious what is the holdover time? Generic or Safewing MP IV launch ?Not trying to get in the middle of the fight though

 

[Karnage]

that and, you or I are over in the right seat flipping switches like it’s the god damned Apollo 11 and trying to monitor like 3 radio frequencies while the captain waxes eloquent about his boat/airplane/second home in Vegas and makes $6 a minute

The let you talk on the radio? That's like my one job during deicing as the CA, well, that and watching the FO to make sure they don't mess up and cause me to suck deice fluid in my lungs when the leave the packs on...

 

[DropTank]

For clarity:
Did the Challenger actually lift off THEN roll, or was it a loss of traction, runway departure then tumble?

 

[Boris Badenov]

For clarity:
Did the Challenger actually lift off THEN roll, or was it a loss of traction, runway departure then tumble?

I doubt any of that is in official evidence yet. But I'll be the witch in church and say that they pretty obviously tried to take off in a hard-wing jet with ice and/or "stuff" accruing to the wing, got airborne, stalled, flipped over, and hit the ground. Put me in the stocks and throw rotten vegetables at me if I'm wrong, but I'm not.

 

[Roger Roger]

that and watching the FO to make sure they don't mess up and cause me to suck deice fluid in my lungs when the leave the packs on...

I fly with an inordinate number of dudes that have deiced in the Guppy “like once last winter in Spokane”.

 

[Karnage]

I fly with an inordinate number of dudes that have deiced in the Guppy “like once last winter in Spokane”.

I’m hardly a pro at it but they usually just go “hey do your thing”

I mean, I’ve deiced more this season than the last three combined so, I get it.

But I also get to set the pace and slow and methodical is how I get it done. Even if I have to chuck stale croissants from catering at the FO to get them to slow down during the setup!

 

[ahw01]

Oh okay, good to know.

You type like Dan Gryder.

 

[Roger Roger]

I mean, I’ve deiced more this season than the last three combined so, I get it.

But I also get to set the pace and slow and methodical is how I get it done. Even if I have to chuck stale croissants from catering at the FO to get them to slow down during the setup!

Oooh, croissants, I knew there was some bougie • happening over in the A gates.

 

[ChasenSFO]

No slats, much like the DC-9-10s, of which some insane percentage, like I want to say 10%? crashed on takeoff in icing.

Funny you mention that, I recently came across this 1991 article:

Crash Danger Looms While Experts Debate Rules For Icy Dc-9 Jets | The Seattle Times

The article talks about the lack of slats + icing being a bad combo. Though, probably because by 1991 every major/legacy except for Northwest and Midwest Express and future start-ups like Valujet would be dumping their DC-9-10s within 1-4 years, I don't think there was another takeoff crash in icing from the winter of 1992 onward that I can recall or find with a quick search.

Icing is one of those interesting things where we go from learning to fly and getting our ratings in planes that say "Do not fly into icing conditions" then go straight to "OK, now fly these people/this freight into icing big dawg". Much to learn on my end, and I have to say, de-icing a 757 in SMF when it was freezing fog and 26 degrees after some power point slides and spraying an imaginary airplane made me pretty anxious vs pretty much anything else I ever did involving an airliner.