CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
More like once a decade.
Bangor Maine - private jet w/8 crash
- Thread starter Malko
- Start date
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Aw cmon don’t all the Texas rednecks that can afford private jets migrate to ASE every year and do their best Tokyo drift impression?
DropTank
Well-Known Member
I've dealt with a lot of crews and different levels of experience.
A considerable percentage of them had insufficient understanding if icing operations.
Many haven't used holdover tables since their college days.
I've flown in a LOT of icing conditions... I mean ALL of them.
I've made bad decisions too.
Made a take off in a turbo prop with a frosty wing.
Book stated that departure was allowed if the frost was smooth or polished.
It flew... but it was not pretty. It was a BAD mistake.
If anything went wrong, engine failure, wake turbulence, wind shear, or even heavily loaded, I would have been [violently fornicated]
A swept wing on a modern airplane is way worse.
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
Yup I can see that, unlike the airlines you would never believe how much weather I skipped just by talking to the passengers to leave earlier or later or changing airports.
But there’s a lot more pressure to make the leg to Paris work then Aspen,
Boots2Wings
Just happy to be here.
Not helping the case for us from having to do the “walk of shame” after deice….
Tbh though, i REALLY do not get why people make a big deal about deice in 121. Youre paid by the minute, you dont pay the bill….just do it thoroughly and right ffs. If in doubt, even the slightest, call iceman, run the procedures and checklist. Of ALL the things people are concerned with “newer” FOs being exposed to before upgrade, why the f do we make deice a big deal?
I don’t enjoy de-icing but I will when there’s any doubt or sign of contamination.
It’s like I really hate waking up in the middle of the night to pee, but the alternative is not acceptable.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
One Twenty Weenies can usually get better than generic. Cryotech Polar Guard and Clariant Safewing have much, much higher holdover times than generic type IV.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Have you ever de-iced in a non-121 airplane?
No. Take a seat and wait this one out.
Also, go ahead and check the HOT table for generic type IV and Clariant Safewing Plus.
Thank you for saying my thoughts.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Anytime.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Relevance? Have flown and deiced in a CRJ-200 many times, which is a similar airframe supercritical wing design.
Can I ask your experience in aviation and deicing?
I have an app for that. Is there a particular question I can answer? At -17C night snowprevail vis 3/4SM as mod intensity, generic type IV is 2-9 min and Clariant Safewing is 6-20 min. So about 2-3x more. Even better is Cryotech Polar Guard at 20-40 minutes.
Again. Did you have a particular point? Or a question?
So you’ve only operated using an FAA-approved company ground icing procedure. Very different from dealing with a FBO and having to use AFM procedures (for starters, HOTs are advisory only on the NearJet I fly and we have to do a tactile check within 5 minutes of departure).
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
The relevance is that you professionally have flown very few aircraft, and your scope of experience is entirely within 121.
It has been two weeks since my most recent de-ice, and I have been to that airport in the winter. It would take some research to confirm, but I might have even de-iced there. I do recall one trip I had an AOG event and worked with the FBO to get maintenance on the field to resolve the issue.
Sure, do you know what de-ice fluid, mixture and temperature was applied?
You might be surprised to know that not all FBOs use generic SAE type IV (that's SAE AMS1428M, in case you're wondering), Safewing is more common than you think.
If anyone wants to read up about the specification required for all type IV fluids:
AMS1428M: Fluid, Aircraft Deicing/Anti-Icing, Non-Newtonian (Pseudoplastic), SAE Types II, III, and IV - Material Specification
<div class="section abstract"> <div class="htmlview paragraph">The AMS1428 specification defines the technical requirements for Type II, III, and IV aircraft deicing/anti-icing fluids. These non-Newtonian thickened fluids are formulated to effectively remove frost, ice, and snow from aircraft...
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Um, ok?
And all this started with me literally saying One twenty Weenies having access to better/more options of type IV.
Was that wrong? Sounds like you and CFI are making the case.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
How is this relevant to the generic commentary that 121 has access to different (better types) of type IV?
We did DTW-BGR in the NWA days and deiced there too. Again I don’t see your point.
Yes, they give us that info.
You might be surprised to know that not all FBOs use generic SAE type IV (that's SAE AMS1428M, in case you're wondering), Safewing is more common than you think.
If anyone wants to read up about the specification required for all type IV fluids:
AMS1428M: Fluid, Aircraft Deicing/Anti-Icing, Non-Newtonian (Pseudoplastic), SAE Types II, III, and IV - Material Specification
<div class="section abstract"> <div class="htmlview paragraph">The AMS1428 specification defines the technical requirements for Type II, III, and IV aircraft deicing/anti-icing fluids. These non-Newtonian thickened fluids are formulated to effectively remove frost, ice, and snow from aircraft...saemobilus.sae.org
Again I don’t see your point with the quick dismissal stat-in-your-lane and sit this out comment based on a simple commentary about better type IV access for 121.
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
Was that wrong? In this case yes. BGR airport runs the De ice for both GA at 121 at the same pad.
But you wouldn’t know that. So maybe ask the question next time *before* the answer
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I don’t even care if your stat is true, I’ve embraced it.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
That's from hazy memory of my *extremely* dog-earred copy of a collection of Flying Magazine "Aftermath" columns (back when Flying Magazine wasn't just basically an advertisement for ways to kill yourself if you're rich). $10 says that particular article was written by Peter Garrison, he was the best.
Haven't seen that book for ~15 years, but I still (sort of) remember things like this. Now ask me what I ate for lunch yesterday. No idea.
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
That was all small points to lead up to it’s the same de-ice team at BGR for 91/135 & 121 aircraft and you would’ve known that if you’ve been paying attention.