Avoiding the Regionals...

what about regionals like horzion and skywest, would it be possbile to make it a career with one of them?
 
Kingairer said:
Fuzzy Math
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Awww, Kingairer...I thought it was Fuzzy math too, but then I realized that I am just a "nail salon queen...." guess you are too.... HAHAHA...oh man, sometimes I can't believe what i hear.
 
I still can't believe how mixed up people are about the regionals! Achtung alles: No esta Mesa senors y senoras!
Put another way: If you shove a feather up your ass and I work at ExpressJet till I get on with a major, we'll both be tickled sh'tless.

So if you're hearing a lot of noise about the regonals, do try and consider the source. And if you decide the regionals are for you, please, please, please do all the homework you can, study the company and mainline carrier, ask everyine every question you can think of (check my post in here for some good ones) and above all, remember this: friends don't let friends fly for Mesa.
 
Mesa has a pretty good upgrade time right now though, don't they? What's the upgrade at express jets or american eagle, like 5 years? It seems like you take what you can get to better your life. If you might have a chance to move on to somewhere bigger why not take a quick upgrade and deal with the low pay and bad work rules.
 
Oh, lordy, here we go again. The long-ago dead, beaten to a pulp, •-yourself-for-PIC debate...

And people, for god's sake, check out some past threads before you post stuff like that, wouldja please?
 
And the 12 year olds witih "Dead Kennedy's" shirts on.

Perhaps I should call it 'The Beaten Horse'
 
The problem truely is that we all work under the same union under different contracts. The real solution is one contract for all the regionals. Then the mainline would have no choice. But this approach will only last until a Freedom or Gojets comes along. People do not realize why Mesa has what it has for this contract. 90% of you would not have jobs if Mesa ALPA did not stop Freedom, and everytime Gojets gets another plane, we all lose. At Mesa three years ago if we would not of taken the work rules cut (which did effect pay) I would not be where I am at now in my career. As for up grade in the ERJ about 18 months, Dash 8, if you have the time it is yours, CRJ 3 years. But most of you do not see the inside workings of Mesa or see the numbers each month. But honestly, most people need just realize that they just need to go to work go home and move on from this industry if you feel that the pay and benefits will not work for your life. Companies come and go and markets change. And if we did not have a senority system or alot of our out dated ways of labor and management ideals, this industry would be in the long run very good to work in.
 
SFLAX said:
And if we did not have a senority system or alot of our out dated ways of labor and management ideals, this industry would be in the long run very good to work in.
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Upgrades based on merit?

That'd be fun watching guys backstab one another for that fourth stripe.
 
SFLAX said:
And if we did not have a senority system or alot of our out dated ways of labor and management ideals, this industry would be in the long run very good to work in.
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How would that work then? You get graded on your PC - how would you grade it? Perhaps you get graded on your on-time departures, or arrivals, or perhaps we put G-meters in the planes and grade on how soft the landing is, or we could have ATC grade us on radio use or have passengers fill out survey cards or have the FA grade us, or the rampers, or get graded on line checks or.......

The reasons we have senority is because there is NOTHING else to grade us on - the whole goal is for us all to be deemed adequate. Anybody who is adequate gets to pass go and be an airline pilot, anybody who isn't doesn't. Adequate has to be good enough, anything additional has no value until the sh*t really hits the fan, and at that time you have no choice on the 2 people up front - you get what you got.

I don't like the union, but at least I recognise it's all we've got. If it wasn't for ALPA can you IMAGINE what the first year FO pay would be at Mesa (or anywhere for that matter).
 
It would probably be a world of 5-year contracts.

Too many sick calls, not enough overtime flying or too many disagreements with maintenance or crew scheduling and you're not renewed.

I know without a union, I'd have gotten raked over the coals when Delta Connection Academy tried to go after me a few months ago. Or my defense would have been much more expensive.

I'm not happy with my union's leadership either, but until you either (a) run for office or (b) attempt to recall them, you have to place the blame on the average line pilot for keeping rotten leadership in place.
 
It would take time and system would be have flaws at first. But remember it is against the law to just fire a person for som BS reason. People would sue and then the companies would pay. Works like this in all other industry. So the lawyer can back stab for partner and that is okay, but if we did it that would be wrong. Come on folks we want to be paid like white collar but we won't accept the work rule of white collar.
 
The work rule being "back-stabbing is a good thing"? Sounds awesome. I can just see the crew rooms filled with boot-licking FO's polishing the rusty sherrifs badges of the Chief pilots for a shot at upgrade... and then the quality of Captains that such a system would invariably reward. Yes, yes, you're right! We should strive to be more like corporate America in everysense! Pitted against one another, graded on the good-ol-boy system rather than on staying stardardized, all racing to the bottom. Managment would love it! And that's a good thing, because what's best for the company is what's best for us, isn't it?

You seem made for Mesa. Best of luck to you.

God how I do get suckered into these hijacks...

Anyhoo...
The "Beaten Horse" forum sounds like a perfect idea. Just fill it with locked threads about all the usual suspects, and we can convieniently link to it when the same question gets asked for the umpteen-thousandth time.
 
Actually, many of us are in 'right to work' states which strangely means that you can, in fact, be fired for "almost" any bullcrap reason. There are a few things that you can't be fired for, but many more which are acceptable reasons for termination.

The problem with having a large pilot group and doing away with seniority progression is the 'metric'.

How do you determine if someone's experience is worthy over anothers for upgrade?

Experience? Well, one FO might have 1500 hours in a Seneca and 1500 hours in a CRJ, but another FO might have 1500 hours in a KC-135 and 1500 hours in the CRJ.

Reliability? One person may have no sick calls (but then constantly fly sick in order to not wreck his sick leave metric), but another may have several but refuses to fly with dangerously blocked sinuses.

On-time statistics? The best on-time statistics are when you don't bother with non-rev's, jumpseaters and give unrealistic out/off times to operations. A pilot based in BOS during winter is going to have a different statistic than one based in PHX.

Completion rates? The pilot with the best completion rate may be flying broken aircraft whereas the pilot with the worst completion rate may be taking the broken aircraft and calling maintenance because the other pilot didn't write up an overtemping engine.

Merit? Do you really want to have to meet your chief pilot at his car in the employee parking lot and say, "Great day sir! Hey, I think your memo about OpSpecs was fantastic...lemme get the door... Coffee? You like Coffee? I'm buyin'!" on the walk to the pilot lounge?

How do we realistically determine who is qualified for upgrade to larger aircraft, better schedules and captain upgrade?
 
<remember it is against the law to just fire a person for som BS reason. People would sue and then the companies would pay.>

I dunno, I've heard stories where flight attendants would take sodas and crackers etc off the plane with them at the end of the day for personal use. Normally no one cared, but if they wanted to fire someone for whatever reason, they could just claim they stole company property and that would be the end of it.

On another note, I think regional jets are the worst thing to happen to the industry as far as pilot wages go. How long will it be before comair or expressjet start flying 737s and paying their FOs $25k a year? ACA tried with independance air already.

How many of you would still want to fly for a major when a 777 captn tops out at $80k and a 737 Captn $40k? Cause it looks like that's where it's going if things keep going they way they are.
 
Snow said:
I dunno, I've heard stories where flight attendants would take sodas and crackers etc off the plane with them at the end of the day for personal use.
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That's a true story.

Do NOT remove crackers, bottles of water or anything from the aircraft because you're "stealing company property."

I flew with one of the contract admin guys a few years ago and they were trying to have a pilot fired for taking a can of soda from the galley.

It sounds doofus to you and I, but don't do it.
 
flyover said:
How's about we just ask them?
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"Why yes I'm ready for my 777 captain seat, weekends off and perhaps a diet Tab, thanks for asking!" :)
 
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