Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
SFLAX said:
Woooo hoooo all that and you guys get to fly the 900 for 50 or 70 seat pay. Can't wait till I get my 1000tt so I can sign up!
Avoiding the Regionals...
- Thread starter mhcasey
- Start date
Woooo hoooo all that and you guys get to fly the 900 for 50 or 70 seat pay. Can't wait till I get my 1000tt so I can sign up!
Tokyo007
Well-Known Member
quick question on the gojets part..please no bashing i'm really lost on this one.
I've seen people bash gojets before and I've never seen what the story is with gojets.. can someone clue me on on why they're so bad? what is it? PFT? what makes them scum? I've also heard some mesa pilots talk about.. freedom jet or.. something like that, something happened in the past with that one. Wish there was a "we hate them because XYZ" on a website, that would help get a history of what has happened because I wasn't flying around when it did. (trying to educate myself here)
(i'd like to know because one of our ex-instructors I think got a job there..hate to apply somewhere down the road and be seen as scum)
back on topic, 2 of our instructors also went to ameriflight to build pic turbine once they get upgraded. They're also on the "avoiding the regionals" plan. Not a bad idea...only bad part is single pilot IFR (I think slightly more dangerous). I think it goes down to the question of quality of life and what works for you.
I've seen people bash gojets before and I've never seen what the story is with gojets.. can someone clue me on on why they're so bad? what is it? PFT? what makes them scum? I've also heard some mesa pilots talk about.. freedom jet or.. something like that, something happened in the past with that one. Wish there was a "we hate them because XYZ" on a website, that would help get a history of what has happened because I wasn't flying around when it did. (trying to educate myself here)
(i'd like to know because one of our ex-instructors I think got a job there..hate to apply somewhere down the road and be seen as scum)
back on topic, 2 of our instructors also went to ameriflight to build pic turbine once they get upgraded. They're also on the "avoiding the regionals" plan. Not a bad idea...only bad part is single pilot IFR (I think slightly more dangerous). I think it goes down to the question of quality of life and what works for you.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Maximillian_Jenius said:Woooo hoooo all that and you guys get to fly the 900 for 50 or 70 seat pay. Can't wait till I get my 1000tt so I can sign up!
Read what he said - its not so much the hourly pay that is the big factor, it's the work rules. And he acknowledged they suck, no need to turn this discussion into something it isn't...
The other freight vs. regional thread actually has some really good (imo) info in it.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
wheelsup said:
I was being my normal sarcastic ass hense the
tag!
Chris_Ford
Well-Known Member
Doug Taylor said:
Not to be confused with the Dough jet.
SFLAX
Well-Known Member
Lets look at a few things. Simple math using averages and 3 year captain pay. If your airline has 3 yr captians. Also we only have 38 900's only captians in PHX and IAH get to fly them, and to get either base as a captian right now is 6 years.
Mesa - Avg Pay for 200/700/900 = $59 per hour x 70 hours = $53,700 per yr
Pinnacle - $59 x 75 hours = $53,100 per yr
Comair - Avg for 200/700 = $59 x 75 hours = $53,100 per yr
PSA - Avg for 200/700 = $59 x 75 = $53,100 per yr
Skywest - $60 x 75 = $54,000
Now lets look at a captian that actually flies the 900 makes.
So a 6 year captian (we only have 20% of our fleet is 900's)
Mesa - $69 x 70 = $62,800 per yr
Pinnacle - $64 x 75 = $57,600 per yr
Comair - $65 x 75 = $58,500
PSA - $66 x 75 = $59,400
Skywest - $65 x 75 = $58,500
So based on the statement that we fly the 900 for 200 rates is incorrect, but also, I will never ever see the 900, b/c I will be long gone before I could hold either base. Plus how many 3 year captians do most of those other regionals have.
Mesa - Avg Pay for 200/700/900 = $59 per hour x 70 hours = $53,700 per yr
Pinnacle - $59 x 75 hours = $53,100 per yr
Comair - Avg for 200/700 = $59 x 75 hours = $53,100 per yr
PSA - Avg for 200/700 = $59 x 75 = $53,100 per yr
Skywest - $60 x 75 = $54,000
Now lets look at a captian that actually flies the 900 makes.
So a 6 year captian (we only have 20% of our fleet is 900's)
Mesa - $69 x 70 = $62,800 per yr
Pinnacle - $64 x 75 = $57,600 per yr
Comair - $65 x 75 = $58,500
PSA - $66 x 75 = $59,400
Skywest - $65 x 75 = $58,500
So based on the statement that we fly the 900 for 200 rates is incorrect, but also, I will never ever see the 900, b/c I will be long gone before I could hold either base. Plus how many 3 year captians do most of those other regionals have.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
Pay and work rules are both terrible....Pay is way way out of line for a 90 seater (at least the FO rates are..). This is one reason among many that the regionals have become such a crappy place to be. This pressure to pay us less. But there are those who are willing to do it.wheelsup said:
SFLAX
Well-Known Member
I am involved in a lot of the ALPA stuff and there will be a change at Mesa, the pilot group is much smarter and different then the last group whom protected the guys with more then 10 years at mesa. These new guys are looking for a QOL change in next few years. Hell we have cass now, nobody thought that would happen.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
SFLAX said:
I didn't want to go down that road, but comparing pay rates:
1) Means nothing without comparing work rules. How many mesa f/o's can credit 95+ hours while on reserve while flying <40 hrs? Oh, and they only get 8 days off/28 day cycle. Ouch.
2) With rates AFTER concessions means jack. Comair's rate is after a pretty sizeable pay cut. Hell, AWAC 5 year -200 CA's were making $75/hr prior to concessions. 2nd year FO's in the -200 were making $39/hr, $50/hr for the 86/88 seat 146, almost DOUBLE Mesa's CURRENT 90 seat rates WITHOUT CONCESSIONS! These concessions were taken to try and compete in part with mesa's bid for the united flying.
3) Of course, all of this pales in comparison to what the majors WERE paying for their smaller aircraft (DC-9, etc.). NWA's 77 seat DC-9 pay topped out at $150/hr. NONE of the regionals, IMO, have any place to talk...
I, for one, hope the major pilots can get THEIR flying, and their pay rates back.
SFLAX
Well-Known Member
We must compare rates after concessions, b/c those are the rates. We live in the now and then look towards the future. It sucks that wages went down, I am an airline pilot and plane on being one my whole life. Your comment about Mesa's bid is partically true, United started the bid issue, ACA said no. Just like they guy whom painted our house last month, not the lowest or the highest but gave us a good package for the price. I hope the majors do get some flying back and some pay, we all do. But I do see an end to this stuff. I agree 100% as to work rules, but why should someone get paid 95 hours for 40 hours of work. I get paid on my line about 87 to 90 hours a month. Yes the rules at mesa are not the best, but they will improve, the pilots at mesa, will not allow the next contract to be signed with out it I promise you that.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
SFLAX-
Our frustration with Mesa is this, wages continue to go down with management using Mesa as a basis for pay grades. Additionally it is troubling for me to see 90 seat aircraft at a regional, I would much rather see those aircraft at a major with major pay rates and benefits. Luckily USAir recently agreed that the E190 would be flown by their pilots and not Mesa or Chitauqua.
Adding to what I said above....Mesa does not help when certain regionals are getting hit up for concessions. Management can always say that the cuts are still better than Mesa.
I hope you guys work hard for a good contract coming up.
Our frustration with Mesa is this, wages continue to go down with management using Mesa as a basis for pay grades. Additionally it is troubling for me to see 90 seat aircraft at a regional, I would much rather see those aircraft at a major with major pay rates and benefits. Luckily USAir recently agreed that the E190 would be flown by their pilots and not Mesa or Chitauqua.
Adding to what I said above....Mesa does not help when certain regionals are getting hit up for concessions. Management can always say that the cuts are still better than Mesa.
I hope you guys work hard for a good contract coming up.
Dugie8
Well-Known Member
We really have ourselves to partially blame for the lowballing going on. For years when it was contract time, pilots would stand up and thump their chests that we wanted such and such a percentage better than the best contract out there, now management is using the same mentality. I don't agree with either approach, but it is not a stretch to see how we caused some of this ourselves.
mastermags
Well-Known Member *giggity*
So when is a regional not an airline.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
SFLAX said:
Exactly! That's what being union is all about. You're supposed to improve upon each contract that comes out. MESA guys are getting paid less with a contract that was signed after the other leading contracts. It didn't matter much to folks when mesa was a small feeder, but now with 180 a/c, 4 feed contracts, etc. they are having an impact on other peoples lives.
Is this a "good package for the price"?
Good for you. I prefer to get paid for trips if the wx cancels the flight, or the a/c has mx issues, I get sent home WITH PAY. Duty rigs and trip rigs which keep us from working 14 hour duty days but getting paid for only 2 hours (that would be 7 hour min pay) etc. all go into what pilots credit.