Autopilot Disconnection

PCL_128 said:
Bingo! Word to the wise: hand flying an airliner in bad weather conditions doesn't make you a "real man." It makes you an idiot. To those that are concerned about the AP not flying the missed properly (something I've never seen in either the CRJ or the 717), then you're focused on monitoring the AP the entire time and can correct it if needed. If you're hand flying, then the other pilot is having to set up the FCP when you call for changes, call the missed to ATC and answer the radio throughout the maneuver, look at his approach plate to verify the procedure and give you a progressive if needed, etc... It becomes a much more task-saturated cockpit. With the AP on, the PNF doesn't have to worry about the FCP and can focus on the radio and the approach plate. The PF can focus on monitoring the AP to make sure that it's following the proper procedure (which it almost certainly is). Don't try to be a hero by hand flying in high workload conditions. All you're doing is making things more complicated.
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And, just to make sure I'm clear here - you're worth MORE money and demand to TAKE IT BACK because you insist that the computer can do it better than you?

I love your stance.
 
In the CRJ the autopilot will take the airplane all the way to the runway if you don't disconnect the autopilot. It's sort of a controlled crash.

Also, on a go around when we click the TO/GA switch it disconnects the autopilot so you will be hand flying for at least a short period.
 
Nick said:
I am curious where you fly the CRJ-200 that is capable of CAT III? I didn't realize that anyone could do it; perhaps you fly out of the USA?

Edit: I read some of your other posts and it looks like you fly in Europe. Do you have a HUD on the CRJ-200? If so, that's cool!
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We do have a HGS on our planes. It is impressive how accurate you can handfly to Cat III minima. The flare command is also cool...
 
Doug Taylor said:
You know what's really handy is reviewing go-around procedure during your approach brief.

Often times, we spend an inordinate amount of time with GSIA's, chart date, amendment dates, yadda yadda yadda when if the approach goes monkey balls, the go around is going to kick your butt.

Technique only! ;)
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You better brief and review those procedures when flying in western Europe! There are some airports that require an enormous amount of nav-settings and dme-holds just for the missed.

Luckily, most of the times you will get vectors for another approach, but don't count on that! Some controllers will just say: "Roger, call me when entering the hold."
 
mtsu_av8er said:
And, just to make sure I'm clear here - you're worth MORE money and demand to TAKE IT BACK because you insist that the computer can do it better than you?
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The "computer" is part of the equipment on the airplane that a smart pilot uses to his advantage to safely operate the flight. In bad weather and a high workload (like a go-around from an approach to low mins) managing the autopilot is usually the safest course of action rather than trying to hand fly and bark orders at the PNF to setup the FCP for the missed. Your disdain for automation of any sort seems to indicate a cowboy attitude.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
And, just to make sure I'm clear here - you're worth MORE money and demand to TAKE IT BACK because you insist that the computer can do it better than you?

I love your stance.
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The computer CAN do it better than us, Lloyd, and we're not paid to do it better than the computer. If that was the case, the computer would be monitoring US.

Instead, we're a paid insurance policy that's taken out to assure a minimum amount of loss and liability to the company in the event of a catastrophic failure that could result in loss of life or loss of the aircraft. When we're not fulfilling that roll, we're efficiency and customer service experts.
 
Doug Taylor said:
You know what's really handy is reviewing go-around procedure during your approach brief.

Often times, we spend an inordinate amount of time with GSIA's, chart date, amendment dates, yadda yadda yadda when if the approach goes monkey balls, the go around is going to kick your butt.

Technique only! ;)
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True dat! We're required to review the go around procedures in our Cat II approach brief (which is like 10 pages of stuff we've got to read and check before we shoot the approach). It's definitely something that doesn't get reviewed often, and something that doesn't get performed often.
 
Cowboy - yeah, that's me!

You guys are so cute!

Your disdain for automation of any sort seems to indicate a cowboy attitude.
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LOL - I'm a cowboy because I'd rather hand-fly the missed? Well, call it what you want.
 
I have to agree with everyone else. This isn't a 172 we're talking about doing a go around in here. I'd much rather have the AP on instead of overwork my PNF by calling for speeds, headings, flaps, etc while he's coordinating with ATC. From a work load standpoint, having the AP on ASAP just makes SENSE. Now, if you've got some kind of ego you need to stroke by hand flying it, that's a different story. But I think having the AP on makes it safer and more efficient, and THAT'S what we get paid for.
 
Lloyd actually has got a pretty impressive backgrond as far as I'm concerned. Flight instructor until 1,200 hours, then a few thousand hours flying freight around in a non radar Cessna 210 in the south in the middle of the night, and is now on the same equipment as me at a different part 121 operation.

I don't agree with him about these issues, but I have a ton of respect for his experience level.
 
Hopefully his attitude will change after he gets a decent amount of time flying in the 121 environment. This isn't a Cessna 210, it's a transport category jet aircraft with a bunch of people sitting in the back. If my copilot had been trying to fly a missed in actual without the AP, I would have said "my controls, autopilot on." I don't have the time or patience for this crap.
 
PCL_128 said:
Hopefully his attitude will change after he gets a decent amount of time flying in the 121 environment. This isn't a Cessna 210, it's a transport category jet aircraft with a bunch of people sitting in the back. If my copilot had been trying to fly a missed in actual without the AP, I would have said "my controls, autopilot on." I don't have the time or patience for this crap.
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Well, you might have had an issue there. ;) I don't have the time or patience for a lot, either.

There's nothing at my company that says you can't hand-fly a missed approach.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Well, you might have had an issue there. ;) I don't have the time or patience for a lot, either.

There's nothing at my company that says you can't hand-fly a missed approach.
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If the Captain says you fly with the autopilot, you fly with the autopilot. Are you saying that you'd disregard the Captain's authority?
 
Eh, I can understand his perspective, coming from flying freight.

It's really hard to try to describe the pervasive attitude that exist in that community. I mean you spend your time flying into the same airports, in the same weather as the 121 guys, but with crappy equipment, no radar, no support network and you do it by yourself in aircraft that, in some cases, shouldn't be flown by one person. You start to say to yourself, "Well #### man, I can do all the same stuff the 121 guys do with two people by myself! Hand fly the entire flight in the crap while dodging thunderstorms, hand fly the approach, hand fly the missed and do it all while drinking my coffee, without swallowing my chew and I'll STILL block in 3 minutes ahead of schedule! If these guys think they need an AUTOPILOT then they're crappy pilots!" Remember there are guys out there doing that stuff, single pilot, in Beech 1900's and Metroliners.

To say they're not capable is incorrect, because they're out there doing it. To say that it's unsafe might not be correct either, I mean Amflight hasn't run a plane into a mountain in 2 years, which when you think about the type of operation that is going on, is pretty good.

It's just a different mindset, and a different attitude. I also think it's hard to wrap your head around it if you haven't been knee deep in it before. I can't say 135 pilots are cowboys, but I also can't say that their opinions are not warranted, because to be real honest the flying I'm doing now at a 121 carrier pales in comparison to the workload I had in a Chieftain.

If any of that makes any sense, it's kinda hard for me to try to describe all the things that go into what Lloyd is saying. Again, I don't agree with him, but in knowing his experiences and having flown for a large freight company, I know where he's coming from and I'm not sure I really have anything to disagree with him on other than, "My experience tells me something different than your experience tells you."

In the end I don't think Lloyd is gonna crash the plane, though I wouldn't operate it in the same manner that he does.
 
PCL_128 said:
If the Captain says you fly with the autopilot, you fly with the autopilot. Are you saying that you'd disregard the Captain's authority?
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LMAO - that was cute, too!

No, I will respect his authority. I'll even shine the kid's shoes and tell him bedtime stories!!!

LMAO
 
mtsu_av8er said:
I mean, times and all . . . trying to get a perspective here.

;)
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I honestly don't remember exactly. I ended up at Pinnacle with about 1000 hours, so probably a few hundred hours of flight instructing, and 3-400 hours in the 1900. I spent most of my time as a 1900 sim instructor at GIA. It paid a lot better. Time now is roughly 5,000 TT, 1,200 121 PIC, 4,000 jet.
 
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