Autopilot Disconnection

kellwolf said:
Do you guys have a restriction on h-wind and x-wind for Cat II approaches? I know we do, but I don't have the book in front of me at the moment.
Click to expand...

Our company limitations for Cat II and Cat III approaches in the CRJ2:

Cat II: x-wind: 30kts, h-wind: 60kts
Cat III: x-wind: 13kts, h-wind: 19kts

Tailwind limit is always 10kts.
 
skyrunner1500 said:
Our company limitations for Cat II and Cat III approaches in the CRJ2:

Cat II: x-wind: 30kts, h-wind: 60kts
Cat III: x-wind: 13kts, h-wind: 19kts

Tailwind limit is always 10kts.
Click to expand...

I am curious where you fly the CRJ-200 that is capable of CAT III? I didn't realize that anyone could do it; perhaps you fly out of the USA?

Edit: I read some of your other posts and it looks like you fly in Europe. Do you have a HUD on the CRJ-200? If so, that's cool!
 
(psst! Somewhere they speak German, but it's not Germany! :) Well, it was kinda part of Germany after "Anschluss" but that didn't last too long)
 
PCL_128 said:
On the CRJ, that's obviously the case. Without autothrottles, you really can't have an autopilot that automatically pitches up with a press of the TOGA. But as you said, by the time you've hit the TOGA, called for flaps 8 or 20 and gear up, and advanced the thrust levers, you're already at the 600 feet and it's time to get Auto back in control so the crew can focus on monitoring things and planning ahead. On the 717 (and I imagine just about any other modern airliner with autothrottles), hitting the TOGA will command the autopilot to pitch up and the throttles to advance to GA power. At 400 feet, you just hit NAV and it follows the procedure perfectly.
Click to expand...


That's better than what we got. In the CRJ, most of the missed approach procedures are not fully coded into the database. Sure it will have the hold, but it usually doesn't get you on to the correct track to get to the hold. Also if you are still in green needles, it continues to try and track the localizer. Our training department teaches us to set up initial heading for missed to intercept, hand fly initial climb through cleanup in heading mode. After all the "#########s and elbows" of that is complete put AP back on, switch to white needles (FMS) and reengage AP in NAV mode when you have time.
 
I'm not sure who's doing your FMS database updates, but the ones at Pinnacle were all loaded perfectly. It included intermediate altitudes and everything. I always switched to white needles right away and got the autopilot and NAV mode engaged at 600 ft.
 
minitour said:
Type what you mean. You either intended to discuss a problem with hand flying, which is in fact a CRM issue...or you intended to discuss a CRM issue. Which is it?

-mini
Click to expand...

I typed exactly what I meant, I explained a problem with hand flying, which is that the other guy is programming the box for you, while you're trying to fly the data they're programming. I also cited the CRM issues, but it's also a problem that can come up while hand flying. This isn't an issue when George is on because you're programming George yourself.
 
PCL_128 said:
Bingo! Word to the wise: hand flying an airliner in bad weather conditions doesn't make you a "real man." It makes you an idiot. To those that are concerned about the AP not flying the missed properly (something I've never seen in either the CRJ or the 717), then you're focused on monitoring the AP the entire time and can correct it if needed. If you're hand flying, then the other pilot is having to set up the FCP when you call for changes, call the missed to ATC and answer the radio throughout the maneuver, look at his approach plate to verify the procedure and give you a progressive if needed, etc... It becomes a much more task-saturated cockpit. With the AP on, the PNF doesn't have to worry about the FCP and can focus on the radio and the approach plate. The PF can focus on monitoring the AP to make sure that it's following the proper procedure (which it almost certainly is). Don't try to be a hero by hand flying in high workload conditions. All you're doing is making things more complicated.
Click to expand...

That was cute!!:cwm27:
 
PCL_128 said:
On the CRJ, that's obviously the case. Without autothrottles, you really can't have an autopilot that automatically pitches up with a press of the TOGA. But as you said, by the time you've hit the TOGA, called for flaps 8 or 20 and gear up, and advanced the thrust levers, you're already at the 600 feet and it's time to get Auto back in control so the crew can focus on monitoring things and planning ahead. On the 717 (and I imagine just about any other modern airliner with autothrottles), hitting the TOGA will command the autopilot to pitch up and the throttles to advance to GA power. At 400 feet, you just hit NAV and it follows the procedure perfectly.
Click to expand...

Now to be truthful, I haven't hit the TOGO buttons to do a missed in like 6 months, so I could be really off here, but the ERJ doesn't have auto throttles and I'm pretty sure it doesn't click off the autopilot when you hit the TOGO buttons.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, though, I haven't done a go around since my PC and don't have any of my manuals to double check right now (I'm at home...and on this website for some reason).
 
John, what will the autopilot do if you don't manually advance the throttles, then? Seems strange to me. You could end up with a situation where the AP pitches to GA pitch with a press of the TOGA buttons, but if the pilot doesn't advance the throttles to GA power, then you could get a stall. I'm not familiar with the ERJ at all, however, so I have no idea what the design philosophy is down in the jungle.
 
You know what's really handy is reviewing go-around procedure during your approach brief.

Often times, we spend an inordinate amount of time with GSIA's, chart date, amendment dates, yadda yadda yadda when if the approach goes monkey balls, the go around is going to kick your butt.

Technique only! ;)
 
jtrain609 said:
Now to be truthful, I haven't hit the TOGO buttons to do a missed in like 6 months, so I could be really off here, but the ERJ doesn't have auto throttles and I'm pretty sure it doesn't click off the autopilot when you hit the TOGO buttons.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, though, I haven't done a go around since my PC and don't have any of my manuals to double check right now (I'm at home...and on this website for some reason).
Click to expand...

You are correct, TO/GA just puts it in the takeoff/go-around submode and it climbs on autopilot from there. You literally can go around by clicking the buttons and pushing the throttles up, and never lay a finger on the yoke.
 
PCL_128 said:
what will the autopilot do if you don't manually advance the throttles, then? Seems strange to me. You could end up with a situation where the AP pitches to GA pitch with a press of the TOGA buttons, but if the pilot doesn't advance the throttles to GA power, then you could get a stall.
Click to expand...

I think it is a bit strange, too, but I guess it's the best way to provide a full autopilot flown approach and go-around with only the pilot moving the throttles.

When you click the go-around buttons it simply pitches for 10 degrees and puts it in roll mode, which keeps the wings level. It automatically goes into speed hold mode when:
- The speed is lower than 1.23 Vs (it targets 1.23 Vs)
- If the speed is more than 170 twenty seconds after you click the buttons then it targets 170
- Twenty seconds after you click the buttons, the speed is +/- 5 knots of the pre-selected speed, then it targets that.


Basically you click the buttons and it pitches for ten degrees. You are S.O.L. if you don't push the power up 'cause it'd activate the shaker and that clicks the autopilot off.
 
jtrain609 said:
I typed exactly what I meant, I explained a problem with hand flying, which is that the other guy is programming the box for you, while you're trying to fly the data they're programming. I also cited the CRM issues, but it's also a problem that can come up while hand flying. This isn't an issue when George is on because you're programming George yourself.
Click to expand...

Again, it's not a problem with hand flying. You don't need "the box" programmed to hand fly. Line up the needles and away you go.

-mini
 
I got to do a coupled go-around in Knoxville back in October at 3am some morning. It's one of the things they have to check during the C-check flight. I was a wuss though and did it at 400 AGL. It worked great, and was fun. Getting our show time modified the next day and being min rested wasn't as fun.

Mike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top