ATR down in Taipei

[Hacker15e]

Wouldn't the training that an airline provides prevent the crew from being overwhelmed by an engine failure?

Training is important, but it sure isn't the end-all, be-all. People do strange things when they are surprised or scared, even when they're well trained, proficient, and experienced. Just human nature.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

WTF? We're all gonna need eleventy billion hours and a Space Shuttle landing just to fly an RJ if Pilots keep doing stupid crap like this. Enter the drones because, you know, "look how stupid those pilots are." Fly the frickin airplane, look at the frickin gauges before you yank on levers. Ugh..... !

Or just feel how suddenly you need to move your feet even more and go "OH WHOA! STOP!"

 

[Roger Roger]

They're on climb out, pop one, C/A goes all ninjahands probably cursing mx and thinking "I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN!" and...shuts down #1...

I strongly suspect we will find that something along these lines is correct.

 

[robofos]

That update does explain a lot, makes sense now why it fell out of the sky, and makes you frustrated that it was something as basic as pilot error (by 3 experienced pilots!) I still wonder why it rolled hard left at the end. Even w/ 2 engines out, they could have made a crash landing going straight forward. There could have been more survivors.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

With any luck, Brian Williams will be along shortly to explain to us what it felt like to be on board.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Just to make this thread more fun....

Anyone notice that all the airplanes falling out of the sky lately seem to be French?

 

[Finny]

This is fantastic.

 

[Minuteman]

Everything in this thread is speculation (even the FDR traces I posted). By default, only the investigators' report identifies the causes of the crash.

 

[MaRiO FDZ]

Everything in this thread is speculation (even the FDR traces I posted). By default, only the investigators' report identifies the causes of the crash.

Yes we know. But we do get a pretty good Idea where it will end up heading with it.

 

[PositionAndHold]

Or just feel how suddenly you need to move your feet even more and go "OH WHOA! STOP!"

Exactly. As soon as I tell the other guy to retard the bad engine I wait for a change in my feet and I look at the engine instruments (In the sim). When it's at idle, and no change, we shut it down. I hope every one trains this way. I'm pretty much a hack when it comes to this flying thing but I don't mess around when it comes to shutting down the proper engine. I only hope I do it the correctly when the chips are down.

 

[Runincolorado]

Exactly. As soon as I tell the other guy to retard the bad engine I wait for a change in my feet and I look at the engine instruments (In the sim). When it's at idle, and no change, we shut it down. I hope every one trains this way. I'm pretty much a hack when it comes to this flying thing but I don't mess around when it comes to shutting down the proper engine. I only hope I do it the correctly when the chips are down.

I was taught this way when I first got my MEL and continue to react the same way.

 

[fholbert]

That's the way I learned too. But who the heck is The Other Guy? It was a one man show.

 

[jtrain609]

Exactly. As soon as I tell the other guy to retard the bad engine I wait for a change in my feet and I look at the engine instruments (In the sim). When it's at idle, and no change, we shut it down. I hope every one trains this way. I'm pretty much a hack when it comes to this flying thing but I don't mess around when it comes to shutting down the proper engine. I only hope I do it the correctly when the chips are down.

Whenever I bring back the dead engine thrust lever, I'm scanning between the EICAS and the ball to make sure nothing changes.

It's pretty easy to see that you're bringing back the wrong thrust lever if you're paying attention to how the aircraft responds, but it requires you to slow down for a few seconds.

 

[deadstick]

Can any ATR folks answer this:

Does pulling back a power lever do anything to the autofeather system?

 

[mshunter]

Everything in this thread is speculation (even the FDR traces I posted). By default, only the investigators' report identifies the causes of the crash.

Just curious. Looking at the data, what makes it so impossible to figure out that the crew shut down the wrong engine and flew a flyable airplane into the ground. I see posts like this and scratch my head. It's blatantly obvious what happened here looking at the FDR data. The crew screwed up, shut the wrong one down after the other one failed, and crashed. Am I missing something? What other data needs to be/will be looked at that changes that?

 

[derg]

I think there was a case in Fresno where a Learjet had a fire indication, but the wires were cross and it indicated the opposite engine. I can't remember.

 

[z987k]

Can any ATR folks answer this:

Does pulling back a power lever do anything to the autofeather system?

If it's like the pt6 pulling the power back on the good engine will unfeather the bad one. That's why we don't verify with the power lever. On the PW series I think it's aircraft, or rather prop system specific.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Mo' lights, mo' problems.

 

[deadstick]

If it's like the pt6 pulling the power back on the good engine will unfeather the bad one. That's why we don't verify with the power lever. On the PW series I think it's aircraft, or rather prop system specific.

That's what I was getting at. That "verify with the PL/throttle" isn't the end-all-be-all procedure. I never verify with the power lever in the KA because of the AFX system, but I would in a piston.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

People do strange things when they are surprised or scared, even when they're well trained, proficient, and experienced.

... or tired.