ATR down in Taipei

It will be interesting to see on the CVR if the three person cockpit was a factor. I have heard several comment on here in the past how the rigidity of Asian culture can impact situations like this. Maybe the C/A started issuing incorrect commands that went unchallenged (perhaps based on a biased opinion that engine 1 was faulty) or maybe there were simply too many chefs in the kitchen. There are no shortage of examples of a lack of clear authority on the flight deck exacerbating emergency situations.

Could some of the pros comment as to why the engine 1 restarts didn't work. Is that to be expected after a full inflight shutdown or could it be indicative of the #1 engine actually having problems as well?
 
Mikecweb, speak some Mandarin? That news video was recorded from security camera(s) on the roof. The contractor was surprised saw the plane fly that low, then saw its crash. That is all. I think I speak some Mandarin. :rolleyes: I grew up about 15 drive where that plane crashed. :(
 
I'm thinking they had the autopilot on when #2 failed, not feeling the control forces and AP trimming. Then getting an out of trim plane glider to tackle.
 
pressclick said:
or maybe there were simply too many chefs in the kitchen.
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It fits all the data.

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z987k said:
So in other words it's like every other transport category airplane ever?
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Not the SAAB! Because the Saab is stupid.

In any case, looked kind of like that east coast crash where the FO screams at the Captain "wrong foot on the wrong engine!" before impact.
 
pressclick said:
It will be interesting to see on the CVR if the three person cockpit was a factor. I have heard several comment on here in the past how the rigidity of Asian culture can impact situations like this. Maybe the C/A started issuing incorrect commands that went unchallenged (perhaps based on a biased opinion that engine 1 was faulty) or maybe there were simply too many chefs in the kitchen. There are no shortage of examples of a lack of clear authority on the flight deck exacerbating emergency situations
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Yup. Again, the Sensei culture: Do what you're told every time. I've seen it. I once saw a Chinese student smack himself to the ground from 8000 ft on the simulator because he was told to do slow flight in a Multi. He was doing it textbook - had it been a single engine. The instructor just cut off an engine on him, and he couldn't figure out what happened if he was doing everyhing "right". I saw couple more made me scratch my head.

I know not every pilot is like that, and have excellent discipline, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone on that flight deck called out Left engine out and the crew started the procedure for that - no questions asked.
 
I apologize if this has been brought up already, but looking at the FDR, Nl, Nh, and oil pressure for number two aren't really indicative of a failure but more like an uncommanded feather. It appears that #2 was actually running the whole time.
 
milleR said:
I apologize if this has been brought up already, but looking at the FDR, Nl, Nh, and oil pressure for number two aren't really indicative of a failure but more like an uncommanded feather. It appears that #2 was actually running the whole time.
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If the engine was running but the prop feathered that would be a lot of drag. THEN they shut down the left engine accidently, wouldn't the airplane have dumped to the right?
 
jynxyjoe said:
Not the SAAB! Because the Saab is stupid.

In any case, looked kind of like that east coast crash where the FO screams at the Captain "wrong foot on the wrong engine!" before impact.
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dustoff17 said:
If the engine was running but the prop feathered that would be a lot of drag. THEN they shut down the left engine accidently, wouldn't the airplane have dumped to the right?
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Silly Swedes!
 
dustoff17 said:
If the engine was running but the prop feathered that would be a lot of drag. THEN they shut down the left engine accidently, wouldn't the airplane have dumped to the right?
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It shouldn't be a lot of drag, just a loss of thrust. That's why a prop feathers. The crew seems to have misidentified not only the problem but the engine as well. Who really knows at this point, I'm just looking at a straight line oil pressure reading for engine #2 from an FDR readout posted to the Internet. I'm pretty sure it "dumped" to the left in what looks like an aggravated stall as they tried to avoid the power lines.
 
I wonder if the FCU on this is anything like that on the PT6A. I have no idea if I'm looking at the data right (I was looking in the wrong margin at first), but this makes me think they had a roll-back to min flow.

Anybody know the trigger for the MW FLAMEOUT message? Or the difference between the torque data? From my tablet, the Objective Tq appears to have increased before the MW message and the bleed valve closed.
 
deadstick said:
I wonder if the FCU on this is anything like that on the PT6A. I have no idea if I'm looking at the data right (I was looking in the wrong margin at first), but this makes me think they had a roll-back to min flow.

Anybody know the trigger for the MW FLAMEOUT message? Or the difference between the torque data? From my tablet, the Objective Tq appears to have increased before the MW message and the bleed valve closed.
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I'm pretty sure these new ATRs are FADEC.
 
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