ATR down in Taipei

Cal Goat said:
On the transport aircraft I've been trained to fly, we don't touch the thrust levers (except to shove them both forward) on V1 cuts until we get to a safe altitude and reconfigure the airplane before we start securing engines. Seems like there wasn't much in the way of coherent procedures happening in that cockpit.
Click to expand...
I don't know the ATR, but the condition and prop levers might be combined, if the autofeather fails you have to do something pretty quick. However, from that data, it looks like it worked just fine.
 
z987k said:
I don't know the ATR, but the condition and prop levers might be combined, if the autofeather fails you have to do something pretty quick. However, from that data, it looks like it worked just fine.
Click to expand...

As far as I recall, even in the Brasilia with an engine failure prop-did-not-feather, we still didn't touch anything til 1500'. I remember having a shaky leg after finally letting off the rudder pedal at altitude.
 
Cal Goat said:
As far as I recall, even in the Brasilia with an engine failure prop-did-not-feather, we still didn't touch anything til 1500'. I remember having a shaky leg after finally letting off the rudder pedal at altitude.
Click to expand...
The King Air 200 & 300 will climb with it unfeathered, but not well enough to meet any kind of climb gradient. You'll need to get it feathered. From what I've seen on the Saab 340, a negative autocoarsen needs to be dealt with really quick to.
 
Cal Goat said:
As far as I recall, even in the Brasilia with an engine failure prop-did-not-feather, we still didn't touch anything til 1500'. I remember having a shaky leg after finally letting off the rudder pedal at altitude.
Click to expand...
Um. Nope. That's what "POSITIVE RATE, GEAR UP, CHECK FEATHER / GEAR UP, PROP (FEATHERED, NOT FEATHERED)" meant; if the PM found the prop not feathered (and as PF, you would know even without the PM bumbling with the torque meter/Np tachometers) you absolutely had to take action right away. Autofeather had to be operative for every takeoff because the airplane would likely have zero to no climb performance with one propeller windmilling, to say nothing of what would happen control-wise. This case, and reversal/PCU failure, were the only "hurry up and do the right thing" things on the airplane.

"No action unless aircraft control or performance is marginal." You might get a few hundred feet per minute at V2 minus a few knots (e.g. not where you wanted to be) if the prop didn't feather.
 
z987k said:
I don't know the ATR, but the condition and prop levers might be combined, if the autofeather fails you have to do something pretty quick. However, from that data, it looks like it worked just fine.
Click to expand...
They were the same lever on the Brasilia, and I'm pretty sure they're the same lever on the ATR (and Dash) as well. Combination fuel on/off, feathering and RPM selection.
 
z987k said:
The King Air 200 & 300 will climb with it unfeathered, but not well enough to meet any kind of climb gradient. You'll need to get it feathered. From what I've seen on the Saab 340, a negative autocoarsen needs to be dealt with really quick to.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but in the 121 world, I think they design the performance numbers to account for these scenarios.
 
Cal Goat said:
Yeah, but in the 121 world, I think they design the performance numbers to account for these scenarios.
Click to expand...
Propeller feathering is assumed by certification requirements.
§ 25.111 Takeoff path.
(a) The takeoff path extends from a standing start to a point in the takeoff at which the airplane is 1,500 feet above the takeoff surface, or at which the transition from the takeoff to the en route configuration is completed and VFTO is reached, whichever point is higher. In addition—
...
(4) The airplane configuration may not be changed, except for gear retraction and automatic propeller feathering, and no change in power or thrust that requires action by the pilot may be made until the airplane is 400 feet above the takeoff surface; and
Click to expand...

(this is why the sweet, wooshing sound of jets is so nice between V1 and Vfs.)
 
Cal Goat said:
Yeah, but in the 121 world, I think they design the performance numbers to account for these scenarios.
Click to expand...
Judging from the Saab and what Doug just mentioned, I'm pretty sure autofeather/coarsening device is presumed to work or you get it feathered. I know it is on the performance calculations on the KA300.

edit -
Autothrust Blue said:
Propeller feathering is assumed by certification requirements.
Click to expand...

2 seconds too late
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Um. Nope. That's what "POSITIVE RATE, GEAR UP, CHECK FEATHER / GEAR UP, PROP (FEATHERED, NOT FEATHERED)" meant; if the PM found the prop not feathered (and as PF, you would know even without the PM bumbling with the torque meter/Np tachometers) you absolutely had to take action right away. Autofeather had to be operative for every takeoff because the airplane would likely have zero to no climb performance with one propeller windmilling, to say nothing of what would happen control-wise. This case, and reversal/PCU failure, were the only "hurry up and do the right thing" things on the airplane.

"No action unless aircraft control or performance is marginal." You might get a few hundred feet per minute at V2 minus a few knots (e.g. not where you wanted to be) if the prop didn't feather.
Click to expand...

Okay, that sounds right. I brain dumped a lot of stuff from that airplane it seems.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I should really delete some of this information to make room for useful things, like more songs on the guitar.
Click to expand...

Yeah, especially if you want to impress college chicks. :D

hqdefault.jpg
 
z987k said:
The King Air 200 & 300 will climb with it unfeathered, but not well enough to meet any kind of climb gradient. You'll need to get it feathered. From what I've seen on the Saab 340, a negative autocoarsen needs to be dealt with really quick to.
Click to expand...

A negative autocoarsen event in the Saab 340 was a handful. Generally resulted in full control surface deflections at some point during the event. If the prop did not autocoarsen, it was the job of the PM to select the condition lever to FUEL OFF, but only after confirming the correct condition lever with the PF. Even though the Saab had near zero performance in a negative autocoarsen situation, it was no time to be simply grabbing and moving levers without identifying, verifying, confirming, then feathering via shutdown (or manual feather pump if you were having a really bad day*)


*in the sim. If memory serves, Saab has never had a 340 not autocoarsen.
 
ctab5060X said:
A negative autocoarsen event in the Saab 340 was a handful. Generally resulted in full control surface deflections at some point during the event. If the prop did not autocoarsen, it was the job of the PM to select the condition lever to FUEL OFF, but only after confirming the correct condition lever with the PF. Even though the Saab had near zero performance in a negative autocoarsen situation, it was no time to be simply grabbing and moving levers without identifying, verifying, confirming, then feathering via shutdown (or manual feather pump if you were having a really bad day*)


*in the sim. If memory serves, Saab has never had a 340 not autocoarsen.
Click to expand...
Really quick was relative. On the jet it's like, oh an engine failed.... we'll get to that in a few minutes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top