ATP CFI pay

Carolyn,

Just a suggestion...but you might want to consider journalism.
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I don't think Sig was saying all non-ATP CFIs are inferior...he was just defending what he's doing and his job. Just as you got offended by his comments. In your case, you're not looking for an Airline job whereas the people who attend and instruct at ATP generally are more airline/aviation goal oriented. They want to get to a flying job as soon as possible and </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
bouncing around the pattern in a Cessna 152 as part-time instructor

[/ QUOTE ] just doesn't cut it as far as their goals and how they want to accomplish it. If that works for you...more power to you! I admire you b/c I wouldn't want to sit around an FBO all day waiting for my next student (once I become a CFI of course). I'm not criticizing you either. Of course we need people to teach in 152/172s. As far as </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
You're global statements make it sound as if everyone comes to an ATP location a chump looking to justify his/her own job, and only by the superior and perfect instruction of people like you may they see the light.

[/ QUOTE ] Sig never said he was the CFI god and ATP turns out the greatest CFIs...he was merely pointing out a FACT that ATP gets 100s of calls/resumes from CFIs who want to instruct for ATP just because we do mostly multi-engine instruction. Granted total time is the thing looked at most on a resume...but multi time is also a big determining factor (otherwise why would there be a 200 hr multi requirement)? Best of luck to you.

SigAV8R
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I'd have probably gotten through college a little quicker and with better grades had I decided on journalism instead of computer science, but all that liberalism made me nauseous.
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Just wait until I start getting sesquipedalian on you...

Seriously, reading his posts I was feeling like I was going to be judged as something I wasn't when I showed up for my training later this month just because I'm already a CFI/CFII. If everyone holds the same views because of my ratings then am I going to get the "let's take her confidence down a notch" treatment when I take my first flight? I'm sure not paying for that.

If I ask what an ATP instructor makes in wages, it's not because I want to gloat at what I do or don't make, I'm just curious. I'm sure there are others out there as well who are just curious, or are possibly just trying to gather data so they can weigh whether instructing for ATP is an option for them as they try to make ends meet on their way to a career. I'm just trying to figure out when it became offensive to ask what a job pays before applying for it and why it became necessary to describe how every CFI/CFII that walks in looking for an MEI add-on and possibly a job ends up with 'egg on their face.'

Then again, I've had a bad week, so maybe I'm just a bit on the sensitive side right now.
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Carolyn
 
Razor

You sound like the kind of instructor I wish I had. I've been a bit of a journeyman as well and have a more intersting resume of airplanes and places than the average ATP grad, including some military time and aerobatics. I agree 100% with your comments about Master Sig, however ATP will probably serve you well if you're on a budget and have a tight schedule.

It would be a pleasure to show you around our school if you ever come to AZ, we're not hiring at the moment but I've a feeling you'd fit right in.
 
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I've been a bit of a journeyman as well and have a more intersting resume of airplanes and places than the average ATP grad, including some military time and aerobatics.

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VFT99,

Were you actually in the military and did you sit at the controls?
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Just because ATP people fly seminoles throughout the program doesn't mean that's all we've flown. Personally I've flown many airplanes ranging from a 152 to a Bonanza. Many pipers and others in between. So don't automatically assume everyone that goes to ATP just goes from a 152/172 to a seminole. So whether I'm an exception or more in the "average ATP grad" group, let's all just compare what we've got experience in before we start making assumptions. Fly Safe.

SigAV8R
 
Shut up sig

Quick running your little mouth sig. Your way to cocky and that's just what I hear from your students. Let's concentrate on making your students the best that they can be unstead of being such an atp advertisment.
 
Re: Shut up sig

Uhh, this website was founded on "quick running of the mouth", cargo!
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VFT99 -- Thanks, I appreciate it!
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I hate the winters in Michigan (well, the good skiing is a redeeming quality, but I'm just not into ice fishing http://www.houghtonlakechamber.org/tip.html ), so AZ might be a nice.

I actually had someone from Anchorage, Alaska shiver when I told her I was from Michigan. She said, "You can keep your winters. They're horrible."

Carolyn (We define summer as 3 months of bad sledding...)
 
Re: Shut up sig

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Your way to cocky and that's just what I hear from your students. Let's concentrate on making your students the best that they can be unstead of being such an atp advertisment.

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i really, really don't want my name in this argument, but maybe you should check the title of the forum you're in.

also, that was sigav8r, the student, not sig, the instructor whom hasn't had any students you could have heard from yet, though i'm sure they'll only have good things to say.

before you start claiming "cocky" you should check your own pockets and see what you find.
 
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Were you actually in the military and did you sit at the controls?

[/ QUOTE ]

Er... yes (12 years) and yes (I sat in the back a lot as well but I won't count that). 152 to a Bonanza isn't much of jump with respect it's all single engine recip time...

Anyway here we go:

PC-9 (turboprop single)
CH-47 (turbine helicopter twin engine)
Slingsby Firefly (recip single)
Grob (recip single)
Hawk (single engine tactical jet)
Gazelle (turbine helicopter single engine)
BA-31 Jetstream (twin turboprop)
C-130

For the record, I'm sure that many ATP grads are safe, competent pilots just like we all strive to be. I just take issue with SIGs arrogance and ignorance and hope it's not indicative of ATP. There's nothing wrong with accelerated training, but a lot of us spend a lot more time doing what ATP claims to be able to accomplish in a fraction of the time. Either we're doing too much, or ATP isn't doing enough. I'm pretty comfortable with my ability and level of knowledge but it took me several years to get here, not 90 days.
 
VFT99,

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I'm pretty comfortable with my ability and level of knowledge but it took me several years to get here, not 90 days.

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For the record, I don't expect to be an all knowing CFI after I finish...but it is the best way to getting going as a CFI. The training done at ATP is great. ATP pilots are no less knowledgeable or qualified than any other part 141 school IMO. It's just we get it done in 90 days versus milking people for all their money like some other schools (which will go unnamed) and on top of that we get most of our time in multi-engines. The biggest difference for me was that for the SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY or MORE than other 141 schools, I'm training in a twin and getting all my endorsements. At just about EVERY OTHER 141 school, you pay the same $35k or whatever and you walk away with 200+ hrs, your CFI-I, and comm...but it's all Single time. The multi add-on cost another $X000. Granted, I know I'll have to review a lot of CFI stuff when I'm done to be able to explain it as well as a 1000+ hr CFI or comm pilot. But what new CFI knows everything anyways?
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And I'm not trying to criticize CFIs who teach in mostly singles either. One of my best friends is a CFI at a 141 school and he can explain things 100x better than anyone I know. And as far as time goes...more power too you if you have the extra time. I just didn't want it said that all ATP people do is go from a 152 to a seminole.
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152 to a Bonanza isn't much of jump with respect it's all single engine recip time...

[/ QUOTE ]

I do agree with you...but what student has turbine or can afford the twin time before doing a program like ATP (or any other company for that matter)? Unless you are military, you're more than likely not going to have XX different planes on your resume unless you're independently wealthy.
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SigAV8R
 
Say there Sig...I think you need to recheck your facts.

A quote:

Ethically, ATP behaves with a set of clear-cut assurances that simply don't exist anywhere else.

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Right. Keep believing that. I agree a lot of schools are shady, but ATP isn't spotless. How about a VP posing as a student to drum up business here on jetcareers? Clear-cut ethics....right.

Oh, and another thing, once you get past 500 multi or so, it's more about TT. That came straight out of the mouth of the director of Ops for NetJets to my ears. I'd say he's a good authority.

ATP has no exclusive claim to high multi instructors. A CFI I was talking to recently at my school has around 700 TT and 400 Multi. In fact, he said the other day that he'd have to look to see if he's SE current. We do all of our instrument in a PA44 (brand new ones at that). We do our Comm in PA44's. The first ticket I earned here was my multi add-on to my private.

CMARTIN - You worked hard for your GI bill, don't waste it! I'm glad I didn't! It's paid my over 17K back thus far.


OH! and did I mention our instructors receive $15/hour starting plus full CIGNA health insurance (also for your family, of course), dental, life insurance, 401K, and you get your CFI-I and MEI for free? Wouldn't wanna forget that. Sig, you've been eating too much ramen...it's getting to your noodle!


Chunk &lt;---I think you all know where I'm going by now.
 
Oh yeah, you'll also get the opportunity to get jet transition training in a Saab 2K Level D (big diff from the ole' CRJ FTD y'all can't log).

Not trying to be a Richard or a braggart but as Clint Eastwood once said:

"A man's gotta know his limitations."

Sig, I'm pointing this all out for your sake.

I haven't mentioned what school I'm talking about yet, but I think you can figure it out.
 
Can you get the voc. rehab to pay for flight training so you can save your GI BIll?

What's your percentage (if you don't mind me asking)? Is it something that will give you difficulty getting a 1st?

Chunk
 
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