ATC Pay Scale

queeno

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
pm577 said:
By the time we all checkout, I'm willing to bet there will be a contract change that'll make this discussion obsolete...
With the FAA paying people to transfer and not retire, eventually they'll have to admit their mistake and give the controllers something reasonable.

But yes, once you checkout, you'll be at the minimum CPC rate multiplied by your locality rate.
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OH Yea, the FFA is going to admit they made a mistake and go back to the old pay bands.excuse me while i change my shorts i was laughing so hard i pissed my self.maybe monkeys will also fly out of my butt some day.and the key work is IF you check out only 40% of you who get out of OKC puppy mill will ever make it.

is there some other FFA you folks are talking about because its not the FFA i or CJ work for?
 
K-Dog

K-Dog

New Member
queeno said:
OH Yea, the FFA is going to admit they made a mistake and go back to the old pay bands.excuse me while i change my shorts i was laughing so hard i pissed my self.maybe monkeys will also fly out of my butt some day.and the key work is IF you check out only 40% of you who get out of OKC puppy mill will ever make it.

is there some other FFA you folks are talking about because its not the FFA i or CJ work for?
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What is FFA? (Something Witty I'm Sure):crazy:
 
pm577

pm577

New Member
queeno said:
OH Yea, the FFA is going to admit they made a mistake and go back to the old pay bands.excuse me while i change my shorts i was laughing so hard i pissed my self.maybe monkeys will also fly out of my butt some day.and the key work is IF you check out only 40% of you who get out of OKC puppy mill will ever make it.

is there some other FFA you folks are talking about because its not the FFA i or CJ work for?
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Well no doubt I have read what some of you guys are talking about.

However, if the FAA has completely turned upside down in the past 2 years, then why do you guys think this is suddenly permanent? The next 2 years could hold something entirely different...

If this administrator is not willing to admit mistakes, then the next one could... (plus the next administrator could just 'blame' the previous one, thereby avoiding any 'mistakes')

At my current job, when I hired out, I was on a payscale that is 75% of all the older employers. However one month after I checked out on the railroad, a new contract was enacted that boosted my pay to 100%. I'm not saying this will happen for ATC, but to say the current situation is permanent... that's also doubtful.
 
pm577

pm577

New Member
Well I'm just as clueless as anyone else, so don't mean to know it all, however it's my understanding that smaller towers are a much better work environment than the large tracon/artccs. The managers are a little more flexible at towers, less overbearing, and man-power shortages not quite so bad.
 
G

GyasiM

New Member
queeno said:
OH Yea, the FFA is going to admit they made a mistake and go back to the old pay bands.excuse me while i change my shorts i was laughing so hard i pissed my self.maybe monkeys will also fly out of my butt some day.and the key work is IF you check out only 40% of you who get out of OKC puppy mill will ever make it.

is there some other FFA you folks are talking about because its not the FFA i or CJ work for?
Click to expand...
Actually PM577 makes a somewhat valid point. In the next 5-7 years Pay WILL have to be adjusted to correct the current issue of vets leaving and to many folks not fully checked out. Right now they are just covering up the problem with band-aids(re-location pkgs/bonus) and not trying to fine a legit cure. Why would experienced controllers move to a busier facility for less pay and a bonus that will be used up after 3-4 years.

The main question is, will pay change for those who signed and will sign up under the current scale? More than likely not since our signature says, "we want to be paid under this scale" so why would the FAA pay more for the heck of it.

So bottom line. FAA is a business. Business is all about supply and demand. The supply of experience controllers is falling rapidly. The FAA will try to pay to keep those folks somewhat happy. The supply of new and incoming controllers is very high, with a plan of 1500-2000 per year for the next 10 years. FAA is not dishing out money to rookies for the next 10 years.

Sucks!
 
queeno

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
pm577 said:
Well no doubt I have read what some of you guys are talking about.

However, if the FAA has completely turned upside down in the past 2 years, then why do you guys think this is suddenly permanent? The next 2 years could hold something entirely different...

If this administrator is not willing to admit mistakes, then the next one could... (plus the next administrator could just 'blame' the previous one, thereby avoiding any 'mistakes')

At my current job, when I hired out, I was on a payscale that is 75% of all the older employers. However one month after I checked out on the railroad, a new contract was enacted that boosted my pay to 100%. I'm not saying this will happen for ATC, but to say the current situation is permanent... that's also doubtful.
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all i can say is get hired and enjoy the show, you folks will never never never see the old pay, it may get better but itll take more than a few years , it took ZAU 10 years after the strike to get back to normal and that was the days when they were throwing money at us to get it fixed.

do you think that by the time you check there will even be another contract? we dont have one now and if the wording in the 1996 FAA reform bill is not changed you will have the same thing in 2011.thats if the FFA dose not get its way in contracting out ATC services. dont think it will happen than talk to the FSS guys and gals that got totally screwed, like say good by to that safe goverment retirement, GONE.

my advise is be happy with the pay and work rules because untill the FFA is FORCED to change them this is all you get from them, remember they are going to congress and telling them that they are haveing no problem finding people to work for 30 to 40 % less money and crappy work rules.

dont think iam trying to talk any one out of this, i really dont care if you folks take the job or not, i no longer have a dog in this fight. in 260 day ill be on the never ending day off with pay.just dont get you hopes up and you will be happy.the sad part is that ill be makeing more in retirement as a ATC12 than a nubee ATC12 will ever make working.
 
queeno

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
GyasiM said:
Actually PM577 makes a somewhat valid point. In the next 5-7 years Pay WILL have to be adjusted to correct the current issue of vets leaving and to many folks not fully checked out. Right now they are just covering up the problem with band-aids(re-location pkgs/bonus) and not trying to fine a legit cure. Why would experienced controllers move to a busier facility for less pay and a bonus that will be used up after 3-4 years.

The main question is, will pay change for those who signed and will sign up under the current scale? More than likely not since our signature says, "we want to be paid under this scale" so why would the FAA pay more for the heck of it.

So bottom line. FAA is a business. Business is all about supply and demand. The supply of experience controllers is falling rapidly. The FAA will try to pay to keep those folks somewhat happy. The supply of new and incoming controllers is very high, with a plan of 1500-2000 per year for the next 10 years. FAA is not dishing out money to rookies for the next 10 years.

Sucks!
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PLEASE the FFA is not a business it is aviation safey , if we are a business than tell me what is the product are we selling??????????
 
queeno

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
pm577 said:
that's depressing
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you betca its wrong, but thats the way it is today, you see back in 1998 i didnt think we would get pay reclass (not that i thought we didnt deserve it)but when we did get it the first thing i said to my work mates is i wonder when they will take it away.

you see 9 years ago i knew this would happen if the wording in the 1996 FAA reform bill was not changed, when the contract talks started in 2005 i knew the FFA was going to walk away ,and it did not and thats why you folks are gonna be in this mess a long time.iam hopeing for good thing in November, but if REP get in put as much into you TSP as you can,this may be all you leave with when you go to LockMart.i hope it dose not happen but the FFA all ready has a plan in place.not trying to scare any one but you folks need to go into this with open eyes.
 
queeno

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
pm577 said:
Well I'm just as clueless as anyone else, so don't mean to know it all, however it's my understanding that smaller towers are a much better work environment than the large tracon/artccs. The managers are a little more flexible at towers, less overbearing, and man-power shortages not quite so bad.
Click to expand...
i would not put any money on it, some of those smaller tower/tracons can be even worse, some of those folks can be even more overbearing, and there staffing can be even worse than the bigger facilites, there are many that have 40 to 50 % trainees.problem no one ever hears about them.
 
pm577

pm577

New Member
queeno said:
put as much into you TSP as you can,this may be all you leave with when you go to LockMart.i hope it dose not happen but the FFA all ready has a plan in place.not trying to scare any one but you folks need to go into this with open eyes.
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Oh yah, I was going to ask if a newbie should put a lot into the TSP. Guess you answered that question.

The tower I was offered is already 50% trainees (7 CPC, 7 training)... not sure why they would want another one there.
 
queeno

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
pm577 said:
Oh yah, I was going to ask if a newbie should put a lot into the TSP. Guess you answered that question.

The tower I was offered is already 50% trainees (7 CPC, 7 training)... not sure why they would want another one there.
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the TSP is great i just wish i could have put more than the 10%, do your self a favor even if things get better putting the max in the TSP very good.

P.S. i put the full amount starting day one and its payes off very well even for us G fund people
 
queeno

queeno

Ward of the Guberment
LinzoATC said:
TSP???

What does this stand for and what kind of protection/retirement does it provide?
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TSP is the goverment 401K part of the retirement, it stand for thrift saving plan. if the FFA were to contract out ATC services all you would be left with is your TSP, and may be a very small part of your retitement that you may have earned at age 62,but you would not get any of it at 1.7% if you have not retired out of government service, it would be only payed out at 1% per year worked. this is what they did to the FSS folks.if a FSS controller had 24 years when they were forced to take a job for LockMart would not get 38% of there old 3 high but would only get 24% because they were not with the federal government when they retired.it would be concidered a vested pension.
 
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