Asking for the jumpseat and other lost traditions

juxtapilot said:
There's nothing I can do... It's in the book, clear as day.
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Hey, there's the attitude I like to see!

'I wanted more fuel for the weather, but the planned release fuel was there plain as day.'

'I didn't want to take 156 hoverboard batteries in the overhead bins with 3 already smoking but there they were, clear as day.'

'I wanted to take the jumpseater who was wearing shorts since his uniform pants got stolen along with his rollaboard but sorry buddy I can't its freaking against SOP and there is ZERO room for captain authority!'

Come on. The letter of the law is one thing, the spirit of the law is sometimes quite another.
 
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j4seymor said:
Hey, there's the attitude I like to see!

'I wanted more fuel for the weather, but the planned release fuel was there plain as day.'

'I didn't want to take 156 hoverboard batteries in the overhead bins with 3 already smoking but there they were, clear as day.'

'I wanted to take the jumpseater who was wearing shorts since his uniform pants got stolen along with his rollaboard but sorry buddy I can't its freaking against SOP and there is ZERO room for captain authority!'

Come on. The letter of the law is one thing, the spirit of the law is sometimes quite another.
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Or how about, you know I was going to be stable by 1000' but there was the airport clear as day. Sucks 70 people died because of my "captain's discretion."

Do I have that right?
 
j4seymor said:
Hey, there's the attitude I like to see!

'I wanted more fuel for the weather, but the planned release fuel was there plain as day.'

'I didn't want to take 156 hoverboard batteries in the overhead bins with 3 already smoking but there they were, clear as day.'

'I wanted to take the jumpseater who was wearing shorts since his uniform pants got stolen along with his rollaboard but sorry buddy I can't its freaking against SOP and there is ZERO room for captain authority!'

Come on. The letter of the law is one thing, the spirit of the law is sometimes quite another.
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P.S. You clearly don't understand what captain authority is.
 
j4seymor said:
Hey, there's the attitude I like to see!

'I wanted to take the jumpseater who was wearing shorts since his uniform pants got stolen along with his rollaboard but sorry buddy I can't its freaking against SOP and there is ZERO room for captain authority!'

Come on. The letter of the law is one thing, the spirit of the law is sometimes quite another.
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I'm gonna assume you're not an airline pilot, let alone a captain, otherwise you'd know, you can only use "Captain's Authority" to violate the FOM to deal with an emergency situation onboard the aircraft.

Not sure how a guy getting a bag stolen endangers the aircraft and all aboard it.
 
Cptnchia said:
I'm gonna assume you're not an airline pilot, let alone a captain, otherwise you'd know, you can only use "Captain's Authority" to violate the FOM to deal with an emergency situation onboard the aircraft.

Not sure how a guy getting a bag stolen endangers the aircraft and all aboard it.
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Not sure how denying a fellow pilot the jumpseat for a reason that could be outside his control is endangering the aircraft either. This is getting out of hand. My point is that sometimes these things aren't as black and white as the Jumpseat Gestapo might think. I've had this happen, and fortunately a Delta crew was able to overlook my denim transgressions and give me a ride home.
 
j4seymor said:
Not sure how denying a fellow pilot the jumpseat for a reason that could be outside his control is endangering the aircraft either.
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Nobody is arguing that wearing jeans will endanger the aircraft. It will not. However, it is in our book that jeans are a no-go and as such I will obey the FOM (which is an extension of the FARs). Despite how silly this might seem to you, allowing a pilot wearing jeans on the jumpseat would be a willful violation of the FARs.

j4seymor said:
This is getting out of hand.
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Is it though? What other parts of my company's FOM would you like me to ignore? Again, clearly you do not understand captain authority. It does not allow me to disregard parts of the FOM I don't like. It allows me to deviate from the regulations to the extent necessary to handle an emergency.
 
j4seymor said:
Not sure how denying a fellow pilot the jumpseat for a reason that could be outside his control is endangering the aircraft either. This is getting out of hand. My point is that sometimes these things aren't as black and white as the Jumpseat Gestapo might think. I've had this happen, and fortunately a Delta crew was able to overlook my denim transgressions and give me a ride home.
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Still don't get it, do you? For one thing, speaking as a captain for Delta, (yes, I really am, ask Derg,) that crew violated our FOM, and had they been found out, would have received, at a minimum, a visit to the big desk, or, at a maximum, time off without pay, up to and including termination. I think it rather shameful that you placed them in a position to lose their livelihoods just to accomodate you. There is a lot of leeway you can apply as a captain, just not to things in the FOM. Delta takes a very dim view of not following the FOM to the letter.
 
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Cptnchia said:
Still don't get it, do you? For one thing, speaking as a captain for Delta, (yes, I really am, ask Derg,) that crew violated our FOM, and had they been found out, would have received, at a minimum, a visit to the big desk, or, at a maximum, time off without pay, up to and including termination. I think it rather shameful that you placed them in a position to lose their livelihoods just to accomodate you.
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Out of curiousity, is that only for FDJ? What I mean to say is, could this jumpseater have occupied a seat in the back and it wouldn't have been as big of a deal?
 
Luigi said:
Out of curiousity, is that only for FDJ? What I mean to say is, could this jumpseater have occupied a seat in the back and it wouldn't have been as big of a deal?
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I know it states that attire for the Jumpseat MUST be uniform, or business attire. On a flow back, you actually aren't jumpseating at all, but are non revving, on an ID0, so then, yes, jeans are ok. As such, the crew did not allow him onboard, but the company did. Only if you occupy the actual seat are you jumpseating on Delta. If J4 sat in the back, then his whole argument is non valid that he jumpseated in jeans on Delta.
 
Although I find this whole discussion somewhat ridiculous, FWIW, DAL's ALPA App Jumpseat guidance says the following:

"Appropriate attire for the jumpseat or cabin seat (emphasis mine) is business casual or uniform".

My current shop has FOM language which allows us to forgo the js dress code in certain circumstances (better have a good story). If it didn't, I'd probably make a call to the Flt Ops duty phone and see if we could get some relief (once again, better have a darned good story)...

I fail to see the big deal.
 
Cptnchia said:
I know it states that attire for the Jumpseat MUST be uniform, or business attire. On a flow back, you actually aren't jumpseating at all, but are non revving, on an ID0, so then, yes, jeans are ok. As such, the crew did not allow him onboard, but the company did. Only if you occupy the actual seat are you jumpseating on Delta. If J4 sat in the back, then his whole argument is non valid that he jumpseated in jeans on Delta.
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Just curious if "business casual" is defined further, or is that left to interpretation? If not defined, it seems grey enough to make an exception for an exceptional circumstance.
 
Kingairer said:
Just curious if "business casual" is defined further, or is that left to interpretation? If not defined, it seems grey enough to make an exception for an exceptional circumstance.
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Does business casual include a denim suit?

image-4231877216.jpg
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Business casual does not include jeans. Even if they are your "nice" jeans with "juicy" bedazzled on the rump.
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What? Do you know how much this Christian Audigier "Ed Hardy" high collar shirt with the embroidered Celtic cross, True Religion bedazzled jeans and pointy heeled shoes cost?

The hell it's not business casual. Everyone thinks I'm pre-tty sharp at the TGI Fridays… back in 2004.
 
j4seymor said:
Hey, there's the attitude I like to see!

'I wanted more fuel for the weather, but the planned release fuel was there plain as day.'

'I didn't want to take 156 hoverboard batteries in the overhead bins with 3 already smoking but there they were, clear as day.'

'I wanted to take the jumpseater who was wearing shorts since his uniform pants got stolen along with his rollaboard but sorry buddy I can't its freaking against SOP and there is ZERO room for captain authority!'

Come on. The letter of the law is one thing, the spirit of the law is sometimes quite another.
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I'm all for thinking outside the box to solve problems, but rules are rules.

If you show up in shorts for any reason, you can't really be surprised when a guy says he can't let you on. Now if he thinks outside the box and says "hey man, I have a pair of pants in my roll aboard that look like they'd fit you." Or "hey, lets take a stroll down to (airport store) and I'll buy you a pair of pants. Sounds like you've had a rough trip" are valid ways to solve the problem.

But like I told a guy who was implying that he was willing to fudge some weight and balance numbers to get me on the jumpseat "I don't expect you to risk your job on my account."
 
Kingairer said:
Just curious if "business casual" is defined further, or is that left to interpretation? If not defined, it seems grey enough to make an exception for an exceptional circumstance.
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Dress pants/slacks and a collared or polo type shirt. No tennis or sneaker type shoe.
 
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