deadstick
Well-Known Member
But did you tell them the pattern was full?
Army retires the Kiowa Warrior
- Thread starter Low_Level_Hell
- Start date
But did you tell them the pattern was full?
Lawman
Well-Known Member
It's funny that a couple of our aviators here in the unit are all former Kiowa converts.
Every day we see the Iraqi 407s kicking around the pattern and you can just see this look of "what could have been."
The ARH was screwed from day 1 just due to timing. If it has gotten started 5 years earlier a lot of the chasing of its own tail wouldn't have happened. Technology like BFT, Rover6 video feed, etc all starts coming out and suddenly its added into the program by PM which requires it to take 2 steps back to get where it had been 5 months before.
Luckily the 64E model PM took notice when they got killed for it. Stopped all write ins and said build what we have right now, we will upgrade it later with Blk II/IV if we really need it. Left us with a lot of holes to fill compared to the older D models but we actually have an aircraft to update instead of a pile of broken promises and a cool poster like the ARH.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
This one was cooler, but I was drawing pictures of the LHX when I was in grade school. If only we still had an enemy to fight in Europe (oh wait!) and had instituted block production in the 80's....
For the poor ARH, all those PMs not managing took it from this
To this
KISS went right out the door.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
F that aircraft and the people that ever thought the Army could own/operate it.
First time I actually got to touch/see it all I could think was my god this would have been a disaster. The exposed rivets/bolts, the tail rotor that is literally inches above the ground, and my favorite the 1/0050's inch gaps that would never see a micrometer outside the factory.
1 trip with the 3 prototypes to NTC would have demonstrated to even the most firm true believer that it would never have been something the Army could work with much less operate in any kind of steady state capacity.
You can't take a technology that requires extreme precision and attention to care and give it to the service that treats its aircraft like a tractor.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
Gee...all of our maintainers had calibrated fingers. We'd ask about this or that on preflight, and they'd come out, wiggle it, and say "oh you're allowed 10 thousandths". Always very impressive.
bkey79
Well-Known Member
Ha, most the time they would request, we would approve then duck!
tattooguy21
Well-Known Member
Sa fire= surface to air.
The 2/1/1/15 refers is to 4 helicopters in army aviation (uh60 Blackhawk, ch47 Chinook, 64 apache and 58 Kiowa). So it read this chopper was shot at x number of times, etc. The 58, due to mission, piloting, etc got shot up generally more them all other aircraft in that battalions fleet combined
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
Q: Do you know who wants Kiowa's flying again more than Kiowa Pilots? ....
A: Apache guys.... with no more 58s and only a token number of National Guard Apaches life is about to get harder.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
Why do you think I'm trying to make my escape? ; )
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Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
Nope. The Army Reserves were the first to give up the 64s. The TX Guard (which may be at Conroe) is keeping a Battalion minus, and I think South Carolina and Utah Guard is keeping their Apaches as well.
Supposedly, WAATS here at MZJ is going from Blackhawks back to Apaches, because supposedly Rucker can't keep up with Apache training needs. The 1/285th will still be shut down from Apaches. Granted, this info is from AZNG guys, so it could just be bluster from a bunch of pogues trying to keep their days/dollars/jobs.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
It's on the list of TDA assignments for instructors now so something is going on down there.
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Low&Slow
Ancora imparo
Blame AD Army for that. They're the ones keeping them and trying to grab all of the '64s away from ARNG. At least a year or two ago, the 82nd was trying to take all the Apaches away from the NCARNG. Not sure if that wrestling match is still going on or not, and if not, I don't know who won.
We're getting rid of all our UH-60A/Ls. They should be all gone by Summer. They're being replaced with HH-60Ms for MEDEVAC missions. We also have quite a few UH-60Ms already.
Are they going to let the Guard guys transition to the other unit?
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deadstick
Well-Known Member
The TXARNG unit, I believe, is at Ellington Field. The USAR 7-6 Cav was at Conroe.
Edit: Well, things change. Apparently 7-6 Cav was changed to 1/158 a few years ago.
tattooguy21
Well-Known Member
Ebs and flows. Can then can't then can. Flew every Saturday for the past 2 months, around 3 classes each Saturday. Latest and greatest is there's no bubble of students on hold.
Just changed the entire flight training program (reduction of flying time) to get pilots to unit faster (enjoy that product.)
With all this, Rucker can't realistically produce the number of apache pilots to fill the 4 battalions we're short. Especially with the American WOs starting the rotary transition program. I can personally speak to two literal companies in the past 45 days where 7 apache guys (per company) dropped their paperwork.