Army National Guard Warrant Officer Pilot Route

[Andrew_Neal]

So I have 5 months left as an enlisted Marine.. just heard about the trackable fixed wing option that the Army National Guard is doing now for warrant officers. From the looks of it, I would have a fairly competitive chance at getting in if I dropped a package. Is there anybody here that has done this or knows somebody who has done this? Seems to be very little info about it online.

 

[Lawman]

So I have 5 months left as an enlisted Marine.. just heard about the trackable fixed wing option that the Army National Guard is doing now for warrant officers. From the looks of it, I would have a fairly competitive chance at getting in if I dropped a package. Is there anybody here that has done this or knows somebody who has done this? Seems to be very little info about it online.

Guard is a funny animal as far as things like warrant packets.

It's a lot more good ol boy system where who you know can override the academics of picking the best candidate based on the paperwork in front of the board. Guard units also tend to hire from within when able. Think about it, since it's state money not big Army why take a chance on a stranger when you've got some locked on E4 in the engine shop that wants to go warrant and already lives in the state near the unit.

I'm not saying don't pass up the opportunity, just do more than drop a packet and wait. I'd recommend you talk to somebody in that state's recruiting office and see if you can visit the unit. It helps them put a face with a name and give you the "could we do ten months in a desert with this guy and not kill him" check.

 

[Andrew_Neal]

Guard is a funny animal as far as things like warrant packets.

It's a lot more good ol boy system where who you know can override the academics of picking the best candidate based on the paperwork in front of the board. Guard units also tend to hire from within when able. Think about it, since it's state money not big Army why take a chance on a stranger when you've got some locked on E4 in the engine shop that wants to go warrant and already lives in the state near the unit.

I'm not saying don't pass up the opportunity, just do more than drop a packet and wait. I'd recommend you talk to somebody in that state's recruiting office and see if you can visit the unit. It helps them put a face with a name and give you the "could we do ten months in a desert with this guy and not kill him" check.

Heard that. There's a unit or two I have in mind, one is a few minutes down the road from where I grew up.. will probably give them a call in the near future and start asking questions.

 

[Andrew_Neal]

So the North Carolina WO recruiter just emailed me back and said that they consider ARNG fixed wing assets "advanced aircraft." That means I would have to get selected for helos first. Flying helos is sort of counterintuitive to my goals so I guess that idea is out.

 

[scoobs]

Any word when the first units will loose their Apaches?

 

[Andrew_Neal]

Any word when the first units will loose their Apaches?

They're losing Apaches?

 

[Ian_J]

They're losing Apaches?

http://www.defensenews.com/story/de...ard-proposal-apache-black--hawk-ari/26511087/

 

[Ian_J]

Also, for anyone interested in Army National Guard Fixed Wing slots, it is very, very likely Guard OSA unit (aka, fixed wing unit) manning will be cut in HALF by the fiscal year.

 

[Blackhawk]

If you are going to Army flight school, active, Guard or Reserve, you will learn to fly helicopters first.

 

[deadstick]

If you are going to Army flight school, active, Guard or Reserve, you will learn to fly helicopters first.

I don't know if that's true. I was just reading an article about CAE getting the FW training contract and there was a reference to the implementation of a new course that made me think the newbies would bypass IERW.

 

[Ian_J]

I don't know if that's true. I was just reading an article about CAE getting the FW training contract and there was a reference to the implementation of a new course that made me think the newbies would bypass IERW.

It's true there's a new FW track, but from everything I've read the track is assigned as an advanced aircraft after IERW like other aircraft.

 

[deadstick]

Found it.

http://www.cae.com/CAE-USA-wins-US-...comprehensive-training-for-fixed-wing-pilots/

The Army and CAE will also be implementing a new initial-entry fixed-wing (IEFW) training program so that entry-level Army students can begin their career track to fixed-wing aircraft much sooner.
....
The transition of Army rotary-wing aviators and training of Army initial-entry fixed-wing students will use six new Grob G120TP aircraft that will be acquired by CAE.

 

[Lawman]

Found it.

http://www.cae.com/CAE-USA-wins-US-...comprehensive-training-for-fixed-wing-pilots/

Until something drastically changes at Rucker, everybody will be selected for an advanced helicopter prior to going fixed wing.

Typically it was 60 guys because they had the shortest track of advanced aircraft training.


As to going guard fixed wing direct, it's totally possible, but the state is hedging you for more use than just that little unit. There is a lot more room to grow you into higher positions and your set up for better success as say a state brigade SP if you've actually flown helicopters.

As far as Apaches it's all over but the crying. My buddy in the Texas reserve unit already has dates for a transition course at Rucker. I'm hearing similar things from guys in Utah and Idaho. Right now a full Battalion is scheduled to appear on Hawaii in the next year made up entirely of helicopters acquired from the Guard. It's happening, and nobody is really sure who or what they will be when it's finished because it's not a 1 for 1 exchange or anything it's a complete rework.

 

[deadstick]

Wasn't the FWMEQ considered an AQC? This term "IEFW" is new, right?

We've seen several troops of 58D's heading to the boneyard. Apparently 120 of 340 have been parked. There will be 60 active by Christmas. It could be worse for the RC Apache community because many of these scout pilots are going to UAS training. What a waste.

 

[Lawman]

Wasn't the FWMEQ considered an AQC? This term "IEFW" is new, right?

We've seen several troops of 58D's heading to the boneyard. Apparently 120 of 340 have been parked. There will be 60 active by Christmas. It could be worse for the RC Apache community because many of these scout pilots are going to UAS training. What a waste.

FW has always been considered and equal to as far as advanced helos, the problem was nobody went straight from IERW in the 67 to the C-12 without doing some kind of helicopter first. And we only started doing that about 5-6 years ago in little 1-3 man groups to build a junior officer cadre in the FW community. The goal now is to kill off the 4187 route of getting guys from Helos to Fixed wing mid-late in their career and start guys as FW pure, but nobody has worked the program that far yet.


The 58's are just a shame because of how they treated those guys. Basically everybody from WO1-CW4 was racked and stacked individually by some secret board based on the recommendations of their senior SP. Then they weren't told where they landed or how many will be kept/cross trained. It's a completely disgusting way to treat people and their families, all because we are afraid if you tell people they won't have a job next year that they won't go to work tomorrow. I'm counting myself lucky I didn't go with 58s on selection day. But even though we have to grow he Apache community by almost double in the next 3 years, we aren't keeping these guys because we don't have a way to transition them fast enough for them to remain career competitive for promotion.

 

[deadstick]

Didn't they go from the 67 directly to the C12 back in the 90s? For that matter, didn't the Army do IEFW at Hunter back in the 60's?

The Scout mission cannot be done with a robot. Skids in the dirt, blade tips whisking at the leaves, eyes outside.

What a crock.

 

[Lawman]

Didn't they go from the 67 directly to the C12 back in the 90s? For that matter, didn't the Army do IEFW at Hunter back in the 60's?

The Scout mission cannot be done with a robot. Skids in the dirt, blade tips whisking at the leaves, eyes outside.

What a crock.

If they did it was only for MI guys in RLO ranks. Up until the last decade FW was sorta the good way to go out job well done for warrants. The war changed all that since we couldn't afford to give up what few CW4s we had and fixed wing needed to grow its ranks significantly.

 

[deadstick]

You're right. Now that I think about it, I was thinking of MI LTs.

 

[Blackhawk]

Didn't they go from the 67 directly to the C12 back in the 90s? For that matter, didn't the Army do IEFW at Hunter back in the 60's?

The Scout mission cannot be done with a robot. Skids in the dirt, blade tips whisking at the leaves, eyes outside.

What a crock.

Back in Viet Nam that was the case. Not sure when they did away with initial FW, but I think it was in the '70s.
Everyone, even the MI types, initially have been going to RW training, then a FW course.
The award of the contract to CAE may mean the Army is considering a change to this, but I would not count on it happening overnight.
Not sure what your goals are but going to RW flight school may not be all that bad.

 

[Andrew_Neal]

Lots of information here, thanks all.

Been talking to a couple WOSM's and it seems to vary by state. I'm getting told I can do IEFW by some and nay by the others, which makes sense with the dialogue I've seen here.

My ultimate goal is to just fly fixed wing professionally, however I get there isn't that important - but I don't want to waste time. The sooner the better, I'm about to start flying lessons here in New Bern.