Ari Ben Aviator

Couldn't hack it? You think a 141 course produces a better result? Ridiculous. I suppose you're doing it 141 and that's why you say that.
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If you went to FSA you would know not many people go part 61. Mostly people who fail checkrides at the school and have to switch to 61 to stay in the program. There is nothing wrong with part 61, I am enrolled in a 61 program myself at the moment. I was only saying that If an outside FSA DPE did a checkride with a FSA student that student most likely switched to 61 because it was there last chance to stay at FSA. So take that student who barely cut it at FSA and compare him to a normal student at The Aviator... YEA they both suck equally. Put a good FSA student next to a normal Aviator kid, I will put money on it that the FSA kid is overall a better more prepared pilot. I am not knocking 61 schools, just the aviator. That's what this thread is for. Dont get so defensive Killtron!
 
JHoffy8 said:
If you went to FSA you would know not many people go part 61. Mostly people who fail checkrides at the school and have to switch to 61 to stay in the program. There is nothing wrong with part 61, I am enrolled in a 61 program myself at the moment. I was only saying that If an outside FSA DPE did a checkride with a FSA student that student most likely switched to 61 because it was there last chance to stay at FSA. So take that student who barely cut it at FSA and compare him to a normal student at The Aviator... YEA they both suck equally. Put a good FSA student next to a normal Aviator kid, I will put money on it that the FSA kid is overall a better more prepared pilot. I am not knocking 61 schools, just the aviator. That's what this thread is for. Dont get so defensive Killtron!
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I thought BB was doing more then just retakes for them.

Correct me if I'm wrong but FSA's students are mostly American or at least native English speakers. Most of aviators customers these days come from India barely able to comprehend what you say to them. I saw a direct correlation between the quality of their English and the quality of their flying. When I left they were trying to get these guys to go to an English class at the community college because the fail rate for them was so high. Another thing the international students do is literally beg for checkride sign offs when they obviously won't pass. I had one student who even had his dad a Saudi 747 captain call me to yell at me for not signing off his son.

FSA tends to use formalized scheduled ground schools in classrooms where as at the aviator it's impromptu and the time and place is at the instructors discretion. If you are disciplined enough to self study I think you will do well at the aviator but if you need structure and the "spoon fed" approach then look elsewhere. I don't think an FSA instructor is going to have you doing better landings then an aviator guy. Like I said before most busts at the aviator are on the oral part.
 
Killtron2000 said:
I thought BB was doing more then just retakes for them.

Correct me if I'm wrong but FSA's students are mostly American or at least native English speakers. Most of aviators customers these days come from India barely able to comprehend what you say to them. I saw a direct correlation between the quality of their English and the quality of their flying. When I left they were trying to get these guys to go to an English class at the community college because the fail rate for them was so high. Another thing the international students do is literally beg for checkride sign offs when they obviously won't pass. I had one student who even had his dad a Saudi 747 captain call me to yell at me for not signing off his son.

FSA tends to use formalized scheduled ground schools in classrooms where as at the aviator it's impromptu and the time and place is at the instructors discretion. If you are disciplined enough to self study I think you will do well at the aviator but if you need structure and the "spoon fed" approach then look elsewhere. I don't think an FSA instructor is going to have you doing better landings then an aviator guy. Like I said before most busts at the aviator are on the oral part.
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Well said. Don't expect to pay for your ratings. Depending on who your examiner is, a checkride could go easy or be tough, but the amount of knowledge that you posess is entirely up to you.

In all seriousness, if you want a good instructor that will give you all the ground you want, the only choice is BRIAN BELL!!!!!!!!!
 
JHoffy8 said:
If you went to FSA you would know not many people go part 61. Mostly people who fail checkrides at the school and have to switch to 61 to stay in the program. There is nothing wrong with part 61, I am enrolled in a 61 program myself at the moment. I was only saying that If an outside FSA DPE did a checkride with a FSA student that student most likely switched to 61 because it was there last chance to stay at FSA. So take that student who barely cut it at FSA and compare him to a normal student at The Aviator... YEA they both suck equally. Put a good FSA student next to a normal Aviator kid, I will put money on it that the FSA kid is overall a better more prepared pilot. I am not knocking 61 schools, just the aviator. That's what this thread is for. Dont get so defensive Killtron!
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I'll put money that I can outfly that FSA guy any day of the week, especially you.
 
JHoffy, there are plenty of us that went to plenty of schools that are at plenty of airlines. Unless you're flying in the military I'd gamble to say that all training is pretty much the same. My suggestion is always to find the absolute cheapest method to pay for your training simply because you're not going to make poop in this career. Even my measly 39,000 loan for the Aviator (yeah that was a few years ago) is hard to pay off on regional pilot pay.

Again, if you're not flying high performance fighters in the military you're all equally worthless. Phew, not lets focus on something more important, like Airline pilot pay.
 
L-16B said:
I'll put money that I can outfly that FSA guy any day of the week, especially you.
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L-16 Sorry you feel you have to defend yourself since you are probably an Aviator kid. It's ok to admit the school sucks, many people think so. If you want to live to out fly a FSA kid, I would recommend finding a school that actually does maintenance on their planes. Aviator can't touch FSA in any capacity. Go check out their program then talk to me.
 
Greaper cheap training is a nice way to go but you pay for what you get. I am glad to hear aviator kids are making it to the regionals but is that cheap program worth putting your life in the hands of a bunch of illegal aliens doing maintenance and the risk that mike cohen isn't going to fly you? Read the thread there are tons of complaints. I am sure there are plently of Aviator students that are excellent pilots I just think there are better schools out there. All I want to say is anyone considering the Aviator for there training make sure you do your research and you are a self starter because you will be teaching yourself alot of material. If you put the effort in I am sure you can come out a good pilot... if you survive.
 
JHoffy8 said:
L-16 Sorry you feel you have to defend yourself since you are probably an Aviator kid. It's ok to admit the school sucks, many people think so. If you want to live to out fly a FSA kid, I would recommend finding a school that actually does maintenance on their planes. Aviator can't touch FSA in any capacity. Go check out their program then talk to me.
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I will live to outfly an FSA kid, my dad taught me about airworthiness, not Ari Ben. If you think where you did your flight training makes what kind of pilot you are, I hope I never have to fly with you, for you have a lot to learn.
 
JHoffy8, exactly how much are you paying for Flight Safety and how are you going to pay it back? When I went through the Aviator I paid 40,000 for all my training from Private Multi to CFII. I believe at that time Flight Safety was 80,000 and it didn't include instructor ratings. Maybe if you have some rich parents that are willing to toss down it's not a bad school to go to. For the rest of us that will be paying back our loans, it's not that easy. My first year at Colgan I made 20,000 dollars, it's almost impossible to pay for food and an apartment on those kind of wages. There were a few instructors from Pan-Am at the Aviator that had over 100,000 to pay back. They were paying well over a thousand dollars a month.

The planes at the Aviator were old, in my experience they were well maintained though. If I saw something wrong with a plane when I was a student or an instructor I would write it up. Much the same, the planes at Colgan are old, in my opinion they're adequatly maintained though. If I see something wrong I tell the Captain and he writes it up.
 
I am not at FSA any longer since I could not afford it. CIME program is $54,000 + another $3000 single add and $8500 cfi grand total of $65,500. Yes, that will be tough on a regional salary. FSA has bussiness track = CFI for 600 dual given, sim center for 1 year and a free type and make about 35,000 a year while at the center. It's possible to survive on that. After the type I know of 2 people who are pulling down 6 figures. I am paying for my training myself, hence why I am at a different school til CFI where I will go back so I can make it to the Sim center. It'll be tough but it is possible. L16 we are talking about schools here not your father, wrong forum. Greaper he must not have had illegal aliens when you were there. Seems to me times have changed. There are plenty of schools out there for the same price as the aviator that will have planes that flaps wont rip off and you will have a good maintenance program. There is a reason that 2 of the DPEs in the area, BB JM, will not fly aviator aircraft, that speaks volumes to me.
 
JHoffy8 said:
I am not at FSA any longer since I could not afford it. CIME program is $54,000 + another $3000 single add and $8500 cfi grand total of $65,500. Yes, that will be tough on a regional salary. FSA has bussiness track = CFI for 600 dual given, sim center for 1 year and a free type and make about 35,000 a year while at the center. It's possible to survive on that. After the type I know of 2 people who are pulling down 6 figures. I am paying for my training myself, hence why I am at a different school til CFI where I will go back so I can make it to the Sim center. It'll be tough but it is possible. L16 we are talking about schools here not your father, wrong forum. Greaper he must not have had illegal aliens when you were there. Seems to me times have changed. There are plenty of schools out there for the same price as the aviator that will have planes that flaps wont rip off and you will have a good maintenance program. There is a reason that 2 of the DPEs in the area, BB JM, will not fly aviator aircraft, that speaks volumes to me.
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You told me that I couldn't outlive a FSA kid because i went to the aviator. I was giving you a reason why I could. My point was, just because you got flight instruction somewhere doesn't mean thats what you live by. You live by everyday experiences. When I was 16, I learned more by flying my dad's super cub around by myself at our deer leases than I ever learned at the aviator. Experience makes you a better pilot, not throwing money away at FSA - and it is a complete waste of money.
 
L-16B said:
You told me that I couldn't outlive a FSA kid because i went to the aviator. I was giving you a reason why I could. My point was, just because you got flight instruction somewhere doesn't mean thats what you live by. You live by everyday experiences. When I was 16, I learned more by flying my dad's super cub around by myself at our deer leases than I ever learned at the aviator. Experience makes you a better pilot, not throwing money away at FSA - and it is a complete waste of money.
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L16 pay attention here! I said with the poor maintenance at the Aviator people are lucky to finish their training alive. Get it now? I was not saying that the things you learned, or didn't learn there would kill you in the future, clearly you are not in their aircraft anymore. So you learned more flying around in the real world, congrats that makes sense, it'll build confidence when you don't have someone there to correct your mistakes and you have to handle situations yourself. This forum is about flight training not real world flying, get back on the topic. FSA's planes are reliable and well maintained, I would much rather spend the extra money to have the piece of mind that my plane isn't going to fail and I can focus on the training not the safety of the flight. You pay for what you get, in most cases. Clearly you are going to comeback with some ridiculous response but I have voiced my opinion and I am finished posting on this thread, I'll let the students looking for a flight school decide. Cheap and unsafe or a little more expensive and reliable? Find another school folks. Now for L16's defense.......
 
Hey JHoffy8

I don´t like these black and white paintings. There is no doubt that FSA has the better maintenance with all the 60 hour checks and the really clean maintenance. But you pay for it. And everybody has to think about if that is necessary.
I can also understand that somebody is very shocked if he sees the different to some other flight schools. I was shocked as well after changing to another flightschool (not AriBen and not from FSA). It takes some time to change and get used to other methods etc... -
!but!
that doesn´t mean that everything else than FSA is unsafe. You learn a lot at these other schools. You have to give it a really good preflight, at least at my school in case of problems i could go to maintenance and ask the #### out of the guys etc... They showed me the parts in question(what to look for etc..) - so I learned a lot and I don´t complain. I never attended FSA so I can´t say how much I would have learned about the maintenance etc. there.
And: You don´t put your live at risk if you train at the AVIATOR. Do a good preflight, runup etc.. don´t expect to have a 100% perfect airplane. But you shouldn´t do that at FSA as well - it´s like the engine failure on takeoff. Always expect the unexpected.
Believe me...you can learn a lot at these schools. And people need to understand - you are flying with trainers at flight schools that are in the air all the time. Do you need seat heating (*g*), air condition etc.? Go and pay for it.
One more example: I don´t get distracted in IFR anymore when an instrument really fails or something else doesn´t work correct (look into your 141 syllabus...training with real distractions) -did I put my life at risk at anytime? No! Flight schools do train you. Nobody needs a pilot that freaks out in the first real emergency.

If you don´t like the Aviator...just leave for another school. It is not really compareable to FSA. It starts with the price, most likely maintenance etc..
But If you want to learn to fly the Aviator it is as good as FSA. Yes, you have older planes at the Aviator...but you pay less and you have more multi engine time in the end. I really don´t think they put your life at risk up there.
The Aviator has some friends here...that stick around for ever and start bashing the school for years. If you want to find out something about a school. Go and visit them and take a flight, talk to students, instructors etc...give them the credit that things can change.

Is the thing with the illegal aliens proofed ... or is it just a rumor someone picked up somewhere?

I don´t get the whole point of outflying somebody. What does that mean? Flying a better steep turn than somebody else? Every monkey can fly the maneuvers after a while. Airlines are looking for team oriented people. Things like ADM etc. are much more important. I´m not sure if I want to be a passenger of you guys flying together in the cockpit. Probably somebody wants to outfly the other and puts the passengers at risk???

People have to understand that there are different ways to do something. You can become a pilot at FSA, DCA, local FBO as you can at the Aviator. Is flying at the Aviator unsafe? I don´t think so. Is the maintenance better at FSA? I do think so. Is everything great at FSA? I don´t think so.

Everybody should take a look at different flight schools (including your local FBOs). Talk to the students, instructors, alumnis etc. Take a demo flight with an instructor. Do backseating etc...
but don´t use black and white painting. A = completly good : B = completly bad

My 22 cents :-)
 
Ari Ben to FSA isn't really a fair comparison. I trained at both schools and, certainly, the training at FSA is much better. But you pay a price for it, and, while I'd say the average student probably does benefit from the very thorough theoretical classes, not all of it is necessary.

A far better comparison to Ari Ben would be somewhere like Epic in New Smyrna. Similar price, once Ari Bens extra fees are included, and yet you train in a well maintained, modern fleet.

Of course, there's the uncounted value of real world experience at Ari Ben. Those engine failures, radio failures and flgiht control failures. The shoddy maintenence and rude management, all teach you to be critical when choosing who you fly for in later life!
 
CLEVERK1 said:
Is the thing with the illegal aliens proofed ... or is it just a rumor someone picked up somewhere?
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Somebody threw it into one of their rants in this thread.

Of course that makes it an irrefutable fact, if its on the forum it has to be true :sarcasm:

On the other hand some people think if you speak spanish, your illegal:bandit:
 
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