Inverted
mmmmmm wine
So the user fees all around then. 91, 135, 121. Let's hit everyone right??
AOPA Layoffs - CAPCON Killed
- Thread starter ComplexHiAv8r
- Start date
Capt. Chaos
Well-Known Member
I made it into the last issue.. I am one if the ADS-B targets in the picture. The whole Alaska article was a soft porn write up on the Cirrus, not on the fact that the entire tour group was a safety disaster.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Were those the dbags who were flying formation up the Lynn Canal a few days after you encountered them? I'd like to have had one of them in the right seat today just to see him cry going into Kake...
I made it into the last issue.. I am one if the ADS-B targets in the picture. The whole Alaska article was a soft porn write up on the Cirrus, not on the fact that the entire tour group was a safety disaster.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
No, the airlines already pay far more than their fair share. User fees are a way of getting corporate aviation to pay theirs.
Houston
Well-Known Member
It's likely there are some, however, they're vastly outnumbered by the people who are just too cheap to pay the dues.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
People are more likely to be willing to pay the dues (even if they're cheap asses) if they see some value in the organization. Right now, unless you're aligned with the interests of the NBAA, then AOPA really has little value for you.
Capt. Chaos
Well-Known Member
Yep that's the group.
Houston
Well-Known Member
Everybody is different, but personally, I think it's worth it even if the magazine was the only benefit.
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
Here are the numbers straight from the FAA. Scroll to the end to see the break down.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/apl/aatf/media/AATF_Fact_Sheet.pdf
Ok we'll do this again.
General aviation already pays to the Airport and Airway Trust Fund through fuel taxes. Gasoline (100LL) pays .193 cents per gal, Jet-A pays .218 cents per gal, fractionals pay a .141 cents per gallon on top of the .218 cents per gal. The airlines pay .043 cents per gallon. The rest of the money comes taxes collected by the airline from passengers that pay the tax when they buy their ticket. So airline customers pay the fees not the airlines as a business. Now to break that down for our Lear 45. It holds 6,000lbs, or 895.5 gallons. Just to fill it is $195.22 dollars in FAA taxes. (Obviously it's never empty, but for arguments sake) Say we want to go LA to NY includes a fuel stop. It'll take roughly 7200lbs or 1,075 gallons. We would pay $234.35 dollars directly to the FAA Trust Fund. So if they want to charge $100.00 per leg were still beating that by $34.57 dollars already. I'm for user fees if they drop the fuel surcharge down to .043 like the airlines. If that were the case we'd pay $11.65 dollars more than the current model. $246.22 vs. $234.35. So a modest increase. Or we could just raise the fuel surcharge by .05 cents, the FAA would make even more money and wouldn't have to call it a "user fee". Just to reiterate, this is just strictly a payment into the Airport and Airway Trust Fund. GA still pays the same (some times based on size, some times a flat fee) landing fees imposed by the state/county/city the airport is in.
Maybe my math is fuzzy, maybe I'm missing some thing from the FAA link. If so, some one please correct me. It's late.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
Is it? Mine came yesterday in the mail. November issue.
Was it the Great Lakes (yellow/black) that is an article in mine?
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
BS it is. I own an airplane on less than 30K a year. Its more about desire to do it than money, IMO.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Good for you, seriously. Just the fixed costs alone on a small piston come close to 3k a year. To fly one comes out to about 50-60 per hour, even for something that sips gas. So at 100 hours a year, that's nearly 33% of your salary for a luxury item. That's a tough sale for most people.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Fixed costs on a piston of 3K a year? What are you talking about. My fixed costs might, might be as high as 1700 this year. That's to hangar the thing, not just a tie down. Remember, there are more planes out there than certified spam cans.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Annual, insurance, tie down/hangar. Just the annual alone is nearly $1200, with no squawks.
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
On a spam can, fine. Go experimental.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
We've been over this before, many times. A tax on the passengers is a tax on the airline. The market only supports a certain price point on the ticket, and any taxes eat into that, reducing profits (or eliminating them).
TFaudree_ERAU
Mashin' dem buttons
Last time I bought a ticket, there were taxes included on my fare. How the hell is that a tax on the airline?
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Yup. I've seen the Great Lakes and Wacos at SnF. Amazing examples of American craftsmanship. I'd buy one of each if I had the dough just to support their amazing work, along with a Maul and an American Champion.
There'd be some seriously happy people at SnF if I won the lotto. I would retire, and own a little one strip airport somewhere and run a hot dog stand on the ramp.
Richman
Houston
Well-Known Member
No, no. Where you're going wrong is you just don't understand the definition of "fair share".
http://www.theaggie.org/2012/02/14/column-liberalism-isnt-fair/
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I already explained that. A given city pair will only support a certain price point. If that price point is $300, and $50 is taxes, then the airline is only getting $250. If the taxes were only $25, then the price point that the market would support would still be $300, but the airline would be collecting $275 of it.
Airlines charge the maximum that the market will support. But that price has to include taxes and fees, since they are required to include them in the quoted price, unlike checked bag fees and other ancillary fees.
