AOPA Layoffs - CAPCON Killed

KSCessnaDriver said:
Learjets don't buy 100LL last time I checked.
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MikeD was correct.

The Learjet crowd keeps GA reliever airports open, so that the Cessna owner pilots can fly in and out of ADS or FTW instead of DAL or DFW.

Now, I aggree with you and Todd, that NBAA does a good job of representing the Kerosene burners, and that AOPA should keep it's focus on light aircraft.
 
USMCmech said:
MikeD was correct.

The Learjet crowd keeps GA reliever airports open, so that the Cessna owner pilots can fly in and out of ADS or FTW instead of DAL or DFW.

Now, I aggree with you and Todd, that NBAA does a good job of representing the Kerosene burners, and that AOPA should keep it's focus on light aircraft.
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I'm told there is an organization that does that, they're called the EAA.
 
The EAA was never meant to be an organization for all of general aviation. It was supposed to be for homebuilders, experimentals, warbirds, etc. It's only become a catchall for general aviation because AOPA hasn't been doing its job.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
AOPA's focus on business aviation is my sole reason for refusing to be a member. I doubt I'm the only one.
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Honest question, not trying to be an ass. Really. Say your side project is a success and you could afford to own your own business jet or maybe a fractional share, would you? Again, just curious to see how deep your hatred of pt. 9 corp goes.
 
USMCmech said:
MikeD was correct.

The Learjet crowd keeps GA reliever airports open, so that the Cessna owner pilots can fly in and out of ADS or FTW instead of DAL or DFW.

Now, I aggree with you and Todd, that NBAA does a good job of representing the Kerosene burners, and that AOPA should keep it's focus on light aircraft.
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Hmm. Learjets keep the field where my airplane is based open? A 3000 ft grass strip? News to me. Probably 1/2 the fields in the country are too small for a Learjet.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Hmm. Learjets keep the field where my airplane is based open? A 3000 ft grass strip? News to me. Probably 1/2 the fields in the country are too small for a Learjet.
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Our Lear 45 at sea leval, 70 deg day, dry, at certified max landing weight of 19,200lbs shows an actual landing distance of 2700ft. Legal yes, smart nooooooo way. Now, I know a lot of straight wing Citations can operate all day out of 3,000 feet. Point being, you'd be superised what aircraft can operate out of some small runways.

We as a pt. 91 operator get to choose which FBO we get fuel. We try go out of our way to use the local mom n pop, if they're within the same price range as the local chain. We're not buying a lot of gas in the big picture but if we get 5,000lbs (around 750 gallons) at $6.00 dollars a gallon, were spending $4,500 dollars. Two of those a day at a small mom n pop goes a long way. There's a reason the Jet-A truck/s are three times the size as the 100LL one. An example, we go to Farimont, MN a few times a year. We could easily go some where else with better pilot lounges and rental cars. (There isn't any rental cars in the town, the local Chevy dealer has a couple they rent but the pax get those, we get the retired beat to crap Crown Vic). But we choose to go there to help them out. Other operators I've seen try to do the same. The rich A-holes might be riding in the back of the plane, most of the time the guys up front try to remember where we came from and support GA when possible.
 
When I was surveying we'd pull our fleet of 8-10 skychickens into the local airport to support those that did us well. We loved giving it back to those that serve GA and avoid the signatures like the plague. Routinely we'd get just enough to make it back the field where we could top of everybody and give them those "tips." The one guy that "mysteriously" upped the self serve pump over 8 cents a gallon overnight learned his lesson when we all started getting topped off a few miles away before calling it a night. We had given that dude over thousand dollars a day.

AOPA needs to keep the phrase "user fees" out of every forthcoming federal budget no matter the party or president. I don't even want it contemplated. The whole charge the turbines the hell with them and let us glide past isn't going to work, avgas is going away and this is a ridiculous policy to start. Please for crying out loud, aviation as a whole I think is a pretty above average intelligence group, get people to join on your merits and policy, quit trying to beg people like you are freaking amway or something. If I was going to join that ONE mailer would have done it, not the other 30$ of postage you wasted on the million color laminated books you repeatedly mail me.
 
I quit when I read about their new Caravan and jet. Sure seemed like a good
ol boys club, and did not seem like an appropriate tool box for the mission. Tbh, it has been at least 10 years since I flew anything with pistons, and that was one quick rental.

As far as I am concerned from my limited perspective, good on them for scaling back. They are not AIN, and do not need new turbine equipment. The article that sealed the deal was when they went on vacation in the Van in the Caribbean. I onpy thought: "Hmmmm. Where can I get a job like this? "
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The EAA was never meant to be an organization for all of general aviation. It was supposed to be for homebuilders, experimentals, warbirds, etc. It's only become a catchall for general aviation because AOPA hasn't been doing its job.
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Well, then it sounds like AOPA's loss and EAA's gain.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The EAA was never meant to be an organization for all of general aviation. It was supposed to be for homebuilders, experimentals, warbirds, etc. It's only become a catchall for general aviation because AOPA hasn't been doing its job.
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This. Interesting observation. I've thought that over the past few years, AOPA's target crowd shifted to the owner flown turbine. After all, that's where the money is. Let the pistons trickle off to the EAA to be "their problem". Ironically, some of the EAAs folks have complained about just the opposite...too much emphasis on certified aircraft.

With that said, I'm a member of both. It will be interesting to see what other changes. It's going to be hard for anyone to match Boyer's skill. He had a unique skill set (from broadcasting) that seemed to make him particularly suited to that job. He deftly handle several events, and earned my respect when I met him at SnF, just sitting there, manning the booth. Cool guy.

Richman
 
Richman said:
This. Interesting observation. I've thought that over the past few years, AOPA's target crowd shifted to the owner flown turbine. After all, that's where the money is. Let the pistons trickle off to the EAA to be "their problem". Ironically, some of the EAAs folks have complained about just the opposite...too much emphasis on certified aircraft. With that said, I'm a member of both. It will be interesting to see what other changes. It's going to be hard for anyone to match Boyer's skill. He had a unique skill set (from broadcasting) that seemed to make him particularly suited to that job. He deftly handle several events, and earned my respect when I met him at SnF, just sitting there, manning the booth. Cool guy. Richman
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Like this months magazine? Think I'll buy a tri-jet?



image-2306180149.jpg
 
PositionAndHold said:
Honest question, not trying to be an ass. Really. Say your side project is a success and you could afford to own your own business jet or maybe a fractional share, would you? Again, just curious to see how deep your hatred of pt. 9 corp goes.
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I have no hatred of pt. 91 corporate aviation. I have a hatred of an entitlement attitude of rich people in general who believe that they shouldn't have to pay their fair share. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a fractional membership if it was best for my business. But I wouldn't be complaining about user fee proposals if I did, either.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I have no hatred of pt. 91 corporate aviation. I have a hatred of an entitlement attitude of rich people in general who believe that they shouldn't have to pay their fair share. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a fractional membership if it was best for my business. But I wouldn't be complaining about user fee proposals if I did, either.
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Sounds fair. Though I still disagree with the user fee model, I get what you're saying.

Just to be fair though, there are a lot of rich people that don't have the "entitlement attitude". There's some that even started from very humble beginnings and turned it into some thing big. I'm not talking about the Sam Walton's of the world. I'm speaking more of the ones that scraped together every thing they had to start a used car dealership, turned it into a single major brand dealer and then added several more on top of that. Those are they types that you never hear about, but I would speculate they're one of the most common users of corporate GA. And just like in your business they're not looking to pay more for some thing they already pay into. Some do turn into complete a holes, those are the ones people end up flying for and it turns horrible.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
True. GA is GA. While business aviation is GA, they have enough pull in other places. We need an organization that fights for average Joe who has a weekend airplane to use for fun. Or maybe use for a trip or two per year. That's what AOPA should be.
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There is no money in it. AOPA is a business. The model needs to change for the weekend warrior to see a true GA advocate.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
True. GA is GA. While business aviation is GA, they have enough pull in other places. We need an organization that fights for average Joe who has a weekend airplane to use for fun. Or maybe use for a trip or two per year. That's what AOPA should be.
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There aren't a lot of average joe's out there who can afford an airplane and the upkeep. It is a rich man's game now.

ATN_Pilot said:
Wow. And people say that ALPA is out of touch with its members. Unbelievable.
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My wife and I just bought his and her's 7x's. 100 million well spent.
 
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