ladder360
Well-Known Member
True dat. Although that doesn't help a whole lot when everyone involved is dead.
"Any Traffic, Please Advise" by an Airline
- Thread starter Windchill
- Start date
True dat. Although that doesn't help a whole lot when everyone involved is dead.
teetee
New Member
He stated that cause it was SLC Airport Number 2 and on radio they call it No. 2 traffic.
Also, I now get what the debate is over on "be advised". I was confused why using the radio and letting others know what you were doing would be considered rude but I was thinking in the sense that my husband had always used it when giving his info in the sense of "if you aren't giving radio coordinates, this is what I am doing, be advised I haven't seen you if I didn't mention you" but still LISTENING to the radio and what others were doing. I guess I was having a ditz moment and didn't realize that some would say that to other pilots for them to do the work of avoiding rather than paying attention themselves to where each person was. I not get why that would be annoying and why some pilots would really hate that. Thanks!!
Your local FSDO doesn't have the authority to interpret regulations.
You don't have to like it, but there is regulatory information in the AIM. That's a fact.
-mini
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
The AIM isn't a regulation.
The only items in the AIM that are regulatory are the items that are also found in the FARs.
Okay.
Which regulation is the required training for ILS PRM approaches for part 91 transport cat. airplanes, among other things?
The AIM has it.
-mini
splash
your social justice comic center
On topic- No reason at all to request "any traffic" at a controlled field sitting on a taxiway.
Off topic- I don't like to ask it at uncontrolled fields. I have done this because I have been in the local practice areas (10-15 miles out) and some CFIs tend to teach over traffic calls. I've been with instructors in the pass that turn the volume off or very low in the practice areas in order to teach manuvers. If I know my outbound route is taking me through or near a practice area then this is the only time I have been guilty of this and my eyelids are peeled back over my forehead. Eyes are first and talk is second. Any other time I don't see a use for it at all.
Off topic- I don't like to ask it at uncontrolled fields. I have done this because I have been in the local practice areas (10-15 miles out) and some CFIs tend to teach over traffic calls. I've been with instructors in the pass that turn the volume off or very low in the practice areas in order to teach manuvers. If I know my outbound route is taking me through or near a practice area then this is the only time I have been guilty of this and my eyelids are peeled back over my forehead. Eyes are first and talk is second. Any other time I don't see a use for it at all.
PeterPilot
New Member
clestudentpilot
Well-Known Member
The AIM in and of itself is not a regulation, it is strictly advisory. Having said that, what is printed in the AIM is very well thought out, and I do my best to follow it, because I realize that I want as much as is possible to go my way when I fly. If the AIM says to do something, I do it, if the AIM says not to do something, I don't do it. Hence the use of a landing light. Only speaking in the part 91 world here, I don't have to use my landing light, it is in the AIM, but it is up to me, put I can't think of one good reason not to use it. As far as the feds getting you on not responding to ATPA, how would they know you even heard it. It is an uncontrolled airport, so you don't have to have a radio, let only have that radio turned on. Personally, I think it is stupid not to use the radio, as I've said in the past, I make all proper radio transmissions, regardless of whether I'm the only plane in the pattern, or if their are 10 in the pattern.
NewYorkophile, you're right it is not proper terminology, I don't think that is what people are arguing here, the fact is that the FAA, in bold, in the AIM, says not to do that. It sounds to me like they really don't want you to do it. Think about it, there are 3 planes in the pattern, someone says ATPA, and all 3 respond at once. Has anything been accomplished, NO. The bottom line is that the pilots, who are capable of making radio transmissions, that do not, are the offenders. If everyone that could make radio transmissions, did, and everyone followed a proper pattern, outside of those on a straight in instrument approach, I don't think we would even be having this conversation. The ones who do not follow proper radio phraseology, and do not fly proper patterns, are the ones making uncontrolled airports more dangerous, not the other way around, as some have argued in this thread!
NewYorkophile, you're right it is not proper terminology, I don't think that is what people are arguing here, the fact is that the FAA, in bold, in the AIM, says not to do that. It sounds to me like they really don't want you to do it. Think about it, there are 3 planes in the pattern, someone says ATPA, and all 3 respond at once. Has anything been accomplished, NO. The bottom line is that the pilots, who are capable of making radio transmissions, that do not, are the offenders. If everyone that could make radio transmissions, did, and everyone followed a proper pattern, outside of those on a straight in instrument approach, I don't think we would even be having this conversation. The ones who do not follow proper radio phraseology, and do not fly proper patterns, are the ones making uncontrolled airports more dangerous, not the other way around, as some have argued in this thread!
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I grant, you the resemblance is striking. At the very least, separated at birth.
DPApilot
GUYSH! GUYSH! GUYSH!
i grant, you the resemblance is striking. At the very least, separated at birth.
hahahaha
splash
your social justice comic center
Oldnotbold
New Member
This ATPA must be a new thing. I never heard it. Mostly I heard either silence or 42 people stepping all over each other.
"Harvey Young traffic, this is twin Cessna NxxxxQ Approaching form the S/E 20 mile out , decending out of 85 hundred for an left hand approach to 36 at Harvey Young.
Repeat at 10 miles or so.
Repeat at 5 miles.
Repeat when turning onto the 45
State airport, 'downwind for 36' with altitude Twin Cessna xxQ and airport
Base same, Final same, adding distance from runway.
When cleared of the runway with airport name again.
Can all be said in seconds, easy, Still have to watch for 'no radio' planes, etc.
When just passing buy an uncontrolled,, I 'll announce that and if I hear a commercial announce, I 'll respond with a position even farther away before he even asks for a report unless he does the ATPA thing.
I've had way to many close encounters of the 'mess my pants' kind to worry what they say or don't say.
I never use slang or CB talk, especially with ATC, (eek) (I've heard them get plum hostile with folks about that.)
Usually with my calls, it spurs the ones with radios to speak up. Sometimes there is an asshat that doesn't, cuts you off, in general tries to kill you and themselves. Those I get a bit snippy with if I can catch them on the ground. < veg >
Having a head set, a 'push to talk' on the yoke, makes all this much easier & faster.
YMMV
"Harvey Young traffic, this is twin Cessna NxxxxQ Approaching form the S/E 20 mile out , decending out of 85 hundred for an left hand approach to 36 at Harvey Young.
Repeat at 10 miles or so.
Repeat at 5 miles.
Repeat when turning onto the 45
State airport, 'downwind for 36' with altitude Twin Cessna xxQ and airport
Base same, Final same, adding distance from runway.
When cleared of the runway with airport name again.
Can all be said in seconds, easy, Still have to watch for 'no radio' planes, etc.
When just passing buy an uncontrolled,, I 'll announce that and if I hear a commercial announce, I 'll respond with a position even farther away before he even asks for a report unless he does the ATPA thing.
I've had way to many close encounters of the 'mess my pants' kind to worry what they say or don't say.
I never use slang or CB talk, especially with ATC, (eek) (I've heard them get plum hostile with folks about that.)
Usually with my calls, it spurs the ones with radios to speak up. Sometimes there is an asshat that doesn't, cuts you off, in general tries to kill you and themselves. Those I get a bit snippy with if I can catch them on the ground. < veg >
Having a head set, a 'push to talk' on the yoke, makes all this much easier & faster.
YMMV
SIUav8er
Narcosis
"Im over yonder!"
sargeanb
New Member
I always used to enjoy flying into State College PA in the E135...it was the only non towered airport we flew to 121. We just made position reports about every 5 miles as we came in, and as we entered each leg or the pattern (or straight-in final, depending on the runway in use). Unicom always responded, and told us how many were in the pattern and where they were. I believe the FAAs reasoning in not using the "any traffic, please advise" phrase is that maybe ALL the traffic in the pattern will try to say where they are all at once, which at a busy non towered airport clogs up the frequency, vs. each pilot reporting their position at the normal reporting points (ie turning downwind, base, etc.).