"Any Traffic, Please Advise" by an Airline

Windchill

Windchill

Well-Known Member
I remember when the "Any Traffic in the area, Please Advise" threads were full of action awhile back, and there was strong sentiment that the phrase is unprofessional, perhaps careless, borderline dangerous. The discussion focused on flying into and out of non-towered fields.

My question would be, is there a distinction between using at a nontowered field versus using it with ATC at a towered airport?

The reason I ask is I took my son up to Hagerstown, MD (KHGR) this evening to see the Allegiant Air MD-80 land, grabbed a bite to eat and made it to another viewing spot to see it take off. The crew while taxiing advised the tower about crossing the runway in order to taxi toward the departure end for take off ...

... then asked the tower "if there [was] any traffic in the area to please advise." I was slightly shocked, and found it interesting to say the least. After some thought however, I wondered if the crew was busy checking weather, filing or dealing with dispatch, communicating with the cabin crew, etc. they may not be monitoring the tower frequency to know what's going on in the area. I did think that the tower would likely advise them of any potential traffic conflicts, but maybe the crew didn't have much trust for a tower crew working out of a semi-rural airport.
 
I think it is in a different context since it is a towered airport compared to previous discussions. The Pilots probably just wanted to know about traffic in the area from the tower. Why, I don't know really unless there were a lot of VFR aircraft up and about.
 
I don't see a problem with it in either case, provided it isn't tying up a busy frequency. I don't say it, because I assume that pilots flying around uncontrolled fields are intelligent enough to know whether they need to announce themselves to me or not, so yes, I think it sounds kind of silly. That said, I predict that if you spend all of your time getting heartburn about how someone else is using the radio, you will find yourself frustrated and unhappy very quickly. I read back the altimeter with my callsign. I often am unable to give position reports when I'm IMC at a strange uncontrolled field. I've been guilty of saying "level one nine oh" instead of whatever the text-perfect AIM phraseology is. There's at least one guy in every group who will tell you that I am a flying accident waiting for a place to happen because of "non-standard-phraseology", but so far I've managed not to hit anything hard enough to leave a mark. Even guys I respect and know might wind up rolling their eyes if they catch me on the radio on a bad day, as I might if I heard them.

Sure, try to practice good radio technique, but getting punctilious about it is, imho, tooltastic. Like so many things in flying, the best advice is "use some common sense and try not to be a jerk."
 
Hot off the press from the FAA. "Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF . . . Pilots stating 'Traffic in the area please advise' is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."
 
Boris Badenov said:
Sure, try to practice good radio technique, but getting punctilious about it is, imho, tooltastic. Like so many things in flying, the best advice is "use some common sense and try not to be a jerk."
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Nice. Sometimes, in the aviation world, I think we get worked up over things that don't merit high levels of our attention or energy.
 
Very interesting subject. The phrase is a peeve of mine actually. If you think about it, the phrase is quite redundant and not at all necessary. When an aircraft is taxiing out & says ex: "Telluride traffic 15M is taxiing for departure runway 27" that is already a request for any other traffic in the area to SPEAK UP! Saying "any traffic please advise" is like saying the same thing two times in a row. I believe in the "KISS" theory, keep it short and simple stupido:) Just because an airline crew does or says something doesnt make it correct. I've heard plenty of airline crews make simple begginner mistakes when out of their element (just like everyone else). Other peeves, "taking the active runway". Where is it being taken and what makes this runway was active??? Hope my opinionated opinion helps:)
Windchill said:
I remember when the "Any Traffic in the area, Please Advise" threads were full of action awhile back, and there was strong sentiment that the phrase is unprofessional, perhaps careless, borderline dangerous. The discussion focused on flying into and out of non-towered fields.

My question would be, is there a distinction between using at a nontowered field versus using it with ATC at a towered airport?

The reason I ask is I took my son up to Hagerstown, MD (KHGR) this evening to see the Allegiant Air MD-80 land, grabbed a bite to eat and made it to another viewing spot to see it take off. The crew while taxiing advised the tower about crossing the runway in order to taxi toward the departure end for take off ...

... then asked the tower "if there [was] any traffic in the area to please advise." I was slightly shocked, and found it interesting to say the least. After some thought however, I wondered if the crew was busy checking weather, filing or dealing with dispatch, communicating with the cabin crew, etc. they may not be monitoring the tower frequency to know what's going on in the area. I did think that the tower would likely advise them of any potential traffic conflicts, but maybe the crew didn't have much trust for a tower crew working out of a semi-rural airport.
Click to expand...
 
Boris Badenov said:
I don't see a problem with it in either case, provided it isn't tying up a busy frequency. I don't say it, because I assume that pilots flying around uncontrolled fields are intelligent enough to know whether they need to announce themselves to me or not, so yes, I think it sounds kind of silly. That said, I predict that if you spend all of your time getting heartburn about how someone else is using the radio, you will find yourself frustrated and unhappy very quickly. I read back the altimeter with my callsign. I often am unable to give position reports when I'm IMC at a strange uncontrolled field. I've been guilty of saying "level one nine oh" instead of whatever the text-perfect AIM phraseology is. There's at least one guy in every group who will tell you that I am a flying accident waiting for a place to happen because of "non-standard-phraseology", but so far I've managed not to hit anything hard enough to leave a mark. Even guys I respect and know might wind up rolling their eyes if they catch me on the radio on a bad day, as I might if I heard them
Click to expand...
Boris Badenov said:
.

Sure, try to practice good radio technique, but getting punctilious about it is, imho, tooltastic. Like so many things in flying, the best advice is "use some common sense and try not to be a jerk."
Click to expand...


You certainly are optimistic! is it always sunny in your world too?
 
SFCC/UND said:
Hot off the press from the FAA. "Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF . . . Pilots stating 'Traffic in the area please advise' is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."
Click to expand...

Not doubting you but could you please give a source for this reference? Thanks!

Cody
 
Codyjp said:
Not doubting you but could you please give a source for this reference? Thanks!
Click to expand...
AIM 4-1-9(g). Since the section is titled "Traffic Advisory Practices at Airports Without Operating Control Towers," I suppose one could argue that it doesn't apply. It won't be me, though.
 
Berkut said:
AIM 4-1-9(g). Since the section is titled "Traffic Advisory Practices at Airports Without Operating Control Towers," I suppose one could argue that it doesn't apply. It won't be me, though.
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks! I still use "traffic in the are please advise" if I have reason to believe there is an aircraft in my area that isn't making calls. All to often there seems to be 'that guy' who makes on call 10 miles out then one more on short final. It drives me nuts.

One of the potential problems we face here in socal is that many pilots aren't very proficient/experience at flying into and out of uncontrolled airports. It gets scary sometimes when you have this issue mixed with the phenomenal amount of traffic we get.
 
This one time, like a reeeeaaaaly long time ago, I asked any traffic to advise on the CTAF and guess what??

I lived to tell about it! :sarcasm:

Seriously though, who really cares? I bet the FAA wont take your ticket for making this call, it "might" prompt that guy on final (that you didnt see) to speak up if they didnt already.

BTW, I dont use this when on the CTAF, but it doesnt bother me as much as it seems to bother others here on jetcareers.

ZOMGZ!!! its like totally NOT in the PCG, AIM, ATC handbook, OR, my Extra cool pilot decoder ring!!!!! <----(thats what these threads sound like in a nutshell LOL!)
 
He or she probably doesn't fly into uncontrolled fields all that often and was just reverting to an old habit they had in their GA days.

In my 121 flying I get to fly into an uncontrolled/tower closed airport maybe once a year. It's easy to get rusty on your uncontrolled radio phraseology unless you still fly GA on your own. It's especally fun when you're running late, forget you're not at a 24 hr controlled field and get that wtf moment when atc says "report cancellation this frequency on the ground or via flight service". Some guys that came from your standard pilot mills have real issues with phraseology in these scenarios, I'm probably not perfect either, but I try to be :)
 
SFCC/UND said:
Hot off the press from the FAA. "Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF . . . Pilots stating 'Traffic in the area please advise' is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition."
Click to expand...

Meh.. When I was at UND the NWA DC9 would always use that phrase when they were arriving on the ILS to GFK. Some people just don't make callouts, I don't see how saying this can hurt.
 
I've always been told not to use it, however I hear it all the time. FAA specifically says don't use it and I don't know why, but I don't care either way.
 
I remember when I cared about what I said on the radio. Now I just do my job and say what I need to to be safe, concise and clear. I fly into uncontrolled fields every so often and sometimes say the dreaded "Any traffic..." You know why? Some jackass pvt. pilot on his first night flight that can barely keep the dirty side down wont be talking and flying in my way. So, you damn right I'm gonna ask for traffic to tell me their position because if I don't ask they're not going to tell. But...but...
 
mtsu_av8er said:
We can fight about this, yet we still here people calling the departure leg the upwind.

Hmmmm . . .
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Yeah i hate that too.
----

I think it is an absolute waste of time and will never respond if there is no factor.
I don't care if you want a pretty little picture printed out in your head.
If I was a factor, why is the world would I not make a radio call myself.

It is a hard argument to make, and kind of like the cloud seeding argument; did it rain we because of cloud seeding or was it just time to naturally rain.
 
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