Any impact yet?
- Thread starter TheWife
- Start date
Mr_Creepy
Well-Known Member
lrup - my point is that ALL Airline CEOs are going to be seen as "the enemy" by pilots. Even Herb screwed the pilots at contract time.
Doug - because I own my own business, and directly control my income. I am not relying on a part-time, volunteer union to protect my interests.
Doug - because I own my own business, and directly control my income. I am not relying on a part-time, volunteer union to protect my interests.
Ahem. A few months ago it was "they can't afford me".
I'd kind of interpret that as "the pay is too low to justify flying a multi-million dollar jet for those work rules".
I'm not trying to be a butthole, seriously. But either a position (any position) is paid too low requisite to the scope of it's responsibility or it's not.
I'd kind of interpret that as "the pay is too low to justify flying a multi-million dollar jet for those work rules".
I'm not trying to be a butthole, seriously. But either a position (any position) is paid too low requisite to the scope of it's responsibility or it's not.
Bog
New Member
I don't have the energy to get caught up on 7 pages of posts.
But, from page 1, yes I've flown with 350-hour pilots in the right seat. It made my job that much harder, especially going into ELP at 3am with thunderstorms. I was basically single-pilot in a CRJ-900.
Can we the pilots change it? Nope, because there are other airlines hiring 300-hour pilots, too. Sure, you can pass a checkride with that amount of flight time, but can you be an integral part of the crew? Well ........
But, from page 1, yes I've flown with 350-hour pilots in the right seat. It made my job that much harder, especially going into ELP at 3am with thunderstorms. I was basically single-pilot in a CRJ-900.
Can we the pilots change it? Nope, because there are other airlines hiring 300-hour pilots, too. Sure, you can pass a checkride with that amount of flight time, but can you be an integral part of the crew? Well ........
Bog
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Same goes for you too, Tenney. Are you copying me? You're about the only one I know that happens to love Mesa management, and for the life of me, I can't understand why you gladly keep the blinders on that you do. Can you explain?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because he hasn't worked here in years? Because the management - worker relationship took a nose-dive after 9/11 and has never recovered? Because we're tied to 2 sinking ships, causing management to cut ever imaginable corner to make a buck?
Same goes for you too, Tenney. Are you copying me? You're about the only one I know that happens to love Mesa management, and for the life of me, I can't understand why you gladly keep the blinders on that you do. Can you explain?
[/ QUOTE ]
Because he hasn't worked here in years? Because the management - worker relationship took a nose-dive after 9/11 and has never recovered? Because we're tied to 2 sinking ships, causing management to cut ever imaginable corner to make a buck?
Aww come on, now! One of the founding fathers of the ALPA movement at Skyway (skyways if you're RAA) turned face and became the company negotiator that drove us to strike back in 1997. That transformation took two years for the koolaid to reach his bloodstream.
It's not what you did *then*, it's how you represent *now*
It's not what you did *then*, it's how you represent *now*
Not pissed at anything - I'm just a naturally sarcastic writer!
If it needs to be said plainly, when you engage people working at Mesa in 2005, with past experience from a 2000 management team, it's difficult to support your argument that things are hunky/dory.
Like when I worked at Skyway the first year, it was fantastic, but then it took a 180 turn my last year. Things may be better now or they could be worse, but I'm not about to debate a *current* SYX pilot about their working conditions based on my experience from February 1996 thru January 1998.
If it needs to be said plainly, when you engage people working at Mesa in 2005, with past experience from a 2000 management team, it's difficult to support your argument that things are hunky/dory.
Like when I worked at Skyway the first year, it was fantastic, but then it took a 180 turn my last year. Things may be better now or they could be worse, but I'm not about to debate a *current* SYX pilot about their working conditions based on my experience from February 1996 thru January 1998.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
So is there some sort of solution to the incessancy of this debate? An arguement with no real end in sight makes no sense.
What is the best way to make Mesa a top notch carrier that would be cheered not jeered in the industry. Would pilots sticking it out not leaving for another regional or "legacy" do the trick.
Or not thinking of Mesa as a "stepping stone" you know rally the troops and make Mesa all that it can be. i.e. industry leading salaries and contracts, work rules etc. at a regional.
Or is the situation at Mesa doomed to perpetuate forever and until the end of all time?
-Matthew
What is the best way to make Mesa a top notch carrier that would be cheered not jeered in the industry. Would pilots sticking it out not leaving for another regional or "legacy" do the trick.
Or not thinking of Mesa as a "stepping stone" you know rally the troops and make Mesa all that it can be. i.e. industry leading salaries and contracts, work rules etc. at a regional.
Or is the situation at Mesa doomed to perpetuate forever and until the end of all time?
-Matthew
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
The pilots, like pilots many places, are basically screwed. The only thing you can do is use your union to force contract compliance and try to improve things next time around. It's especially hard at Mesa because you have a steady stream of MAPDer's who are just happy to be there and don't have any options. These guys are happy to have low expectations....
You also have a CEO willing to invest in an alter ego airline to break the union. Who knows what he'll do next time.
To the man, all my friends at Mesa want out. I just recommended my RJ check airman buddy at UPS.
With all that said, I wouldn't NOT go to Mesa cause it sucks there. Know what you are getting into and use the opportunity to your advantage.
You also have a CEO willing to invest in an alter ego airline to break the union. Who knows what he'll do next time.
To the man, all my friends at Mesa want out. I just recommended my RJ check airman buddy at UPS.
With all that said, I wouldn't NOT go to Mesa cause it sucks there. Know what you are getting into and use the opportunity to your advantage.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
[ QUOTE ]
Max, the answer is "42".
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry don't follow ya bud! Please explain.....
-Matthew
Max, the answer is "42".
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry don't follow ya bud! Please explain.....
-Matthew
Mr_Creepy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The pilots, like pilots many places, are basically screwed. The only thing you can do is use your union to force contract compliance and try to improve things next time around. It's especially hard at Mesa because you have a steady stream of MAPDer's who are just happy to be there and don't have any options. These guys are happy to have low expectations....
You also have a CEO willing to invest in an alter ego airline to break the union. Who knows what he'll do next time.
To the man, all my friends at Mesa want out. I just recommended my RJ check airman buddy at UPS.
With all that said, I wouldn't NOT go to Mesa cause it sucks there. Know what you are getting into and use the opportunity to your advantage.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've heard both. I know some guys who hate Mesa and others who love it. Their personalities reflect this as well.
Mesa will probably never be a top-notch carrier. It's always had the "stepping stone" image.
On the flip side, it is not the scourge of the industry either. There are airlines that are "lower on the food chain."
The pilots, like pilots many places, are basically screwed. The only thing you can do is use your union to force contract compliance and try to improve things next time around. It's especially hard at Mesa because you have a steady stream of MAPDer's who are just happy to be there and don't have any options. These guys are happy to have low expectations....
You also have a CEO willing to invest in an alter ego airline to break the union. Who knows what he'll do next time.
To the man, all my friends at Mesa want out. I just recommended my RJ check airman buddy at UPS.
With all that said, I wouldn't NOT go to Mesa cause it sucks there. Know what you are getting into and use the opportunity to your advantage.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've heard both. I know some guys who hate Mesa and others who love it. Their personalities reflect this as well.
Mesa will probably never be a top-notch carrier. It's always had the "stepping stone" image.
On the flip side, it is not the scourge of the industry either. There are airlines that are "lower on the food chain."
Bog
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
The pilots, like pilots many places, are basically screwed. The only thing you can do is use your union to force contract compliance and try to improve things next time around. It's especially hard at Mesa because you have a steady stream of MAPDer's who are just happy to be there and don't have any options. These guys are happy to have low expectations....
You also have a CEO willing to invest in an alter ego airline to break the union. Who knows what he'll do next time.
To the man, all my friends at Mesa want out. I just recommended my RJ check airman buddy at UPS.
[/ QUOTE ]
You hit it on the head. Unfortunately, our union leadership is less than satisfactory and is a big reason we are where we are. We're trying to replace them, but there's so much apathy in the top 20% of the seniority list that it's a very tough battle.
And JT, the only people who are happy at Mesa right now are the newhires. Except the 4 who were furloughed last week. They're like the rest of us ... unhappy.
The pilots, like pilots many places, are basically screwed. The only thing you can do is use your union to force contract compliance and try to improve things next time around. It's especially hard at Mesa because you have a steady stream of MAPDer's who are just happy to be there and don't have any options. These guys are happy to have low expectations....
You also have a CEO willing to invest in an alter ego airline to break the union. Who knows what he'll do next time.
To the man, all my friends at Mesa want out. I just recommended my RJ check airman buddy at UPS.
[/ QUOTE ]
You hit it on the head. Unfortunately, our union leadership is less than satisfactory and is a big reason we are where we are. We're trying to replace them, but there's so much apathy in the top 20% of the seniority list that it's a very tough battle.
And JT, the only people who are happy at Mesa right now are the newhires. Except the 4 who were furloughed last week. They're like the rest of us ... unhappy.