Another unresponsive plane over the Atlantic-TBM 700

[Mark815]

Exactly... I was at a TBMOPA meeting a few years ago. Pratt and Whitney had techs and engineers out explaining how engine washes every 100 hours were beneficial and would save an owner money in the long haul... However there were 5 or so owners asking "can I do this myself? Do I need to do this every 100 hours? Can I just do it once a year?" I mean come on guys, sure you bought the airplane to save some money on fuel, but it's the only engine you got. you need to take care of it.

It never ceased to amaze me when I worked line service how cheap some of these people really are. I had guys show up in brand new Mooney's, PC12s, heck even single pilot Citations, and upon finding out that our competitions fuel was 5 cents cheaper, they would literally go and start their plane, and taxi over to the other FBO. Always blew my mind that they were fine with another start/stop cycle on the engine, plus the fuel burn to go save a few bucks.

 

[jynxyjoe]

It never ceased to amaze me when I worked line service how cheap some of these people really are. I had guys show up in brand new Mooney's, PC12s, heck even single pilot Citations, and upon finding out that our competitions fuel was 5 cents cheaper, they would literally go and start their plane, and taxi over to the other FBO. Always blew my mind that they were fine with another start/stop cycle on the engine, plus the fuel burn to go save a few bucks.

Immediate v: long term view.

 

[tomokc]

Gotcha, I just don't see the reasoning in cutting corners especially on something that is meant as a life saving device! If someone is cutting corners to save a few bucks here, what else are they doing to save money?

The argument can be made that every component is a life-saving device, worthy of maintenance as recommended by the manufacturer.

If you can't afford to maintain an airplane, then you've no business owning one.

 

[thevideographer]

If you can't afford to maintain an airplane, then you've no business owning one.

When do you stop with that logic? Answer: never, that's why prices are totally out of control in aviation. iPad mount for the yoke? yep, that's safety critical, $300 please.

I'm not saying "fix everything with duct tape" but remember just throwing money at things doesn't mean you're getting a benefit. If medical and aviators' oxygen are the same thing then they're the same thing, it doesn't matter how much more you pay for one of them.

*I personally have no idea if medical and aviators' oxygen are the same, but I do disagree with the idea that aircraft operators should spend as much money as possible because "they can afford it".

 

[ChasenSFO]

*I personally have no idea if medical and aviators' oxygen are the same, but I do disagree with the idea that aircraft operators should spend as much money as possible because "they can afford it".

I agree with that, BUT, there are corners you don't cut. If you skip things to save a few bucks that are bad for the airplane(like @kiloalpha 's engine wash example) or have say, a Citation IV and pay the F/O $20,000/year, then you have no business owning said airplane.

 

[greg1016]

People use uncertified engines in experimental and light sport aircraft too, is that dangerous? I look at the av/med ox issue the same way. Would I fill the emergency pilot's ox in a pressurized aircraft with med ox? Probably not, but I would have no qualms about taking a bottle of med oxygen up in a light single up to 17.5, because the conditions of its use are not extreme

 

[SteveC]

I agree with that, BUT, there are corners you don't cut. If you skip things to save a few bucks that are bad for the airplane(like @kiloalpha 's engine wash example) or have say, a Citation IV and pay the F/O $20,000/year, then you have no business owning said airplane.

Citation IV???

 

[ChasenSFO]

Citation IV???

Whoops I meant CJ4. GA jets are not my forte.

 

[herik54555]

People use uncertified engines in experimental and light sport aircraft too, is that dangerous? I look at the av/med ox issue the same way. Would I fill the emergency pilot's ox in a pressurized aircraft with med ox? Probably not, but I would have no qualms about taking a bottle of med oxygen up in a light single up to 17.5, because the conditions of its use are not extreme

Agreed! At least in some se whatever I would assume the bottle can stay at some what of a non freezing temp....these "pilots" talking about filling aircraft o2 bottles (sitting in some unpressurized, unheated compartment) with med oxygen???? How big of a tard do you have to be????? I would literally have every single piece of personal belonging thrown out of the office if I ever let some bs like that happen!

 

[thevideographer]

Agreed! At least in some se whatever I would assume the bottle can stay at some what of a non freezing temp....these "pilots" talking about filling aircraft o2 bottles (sitting in some unpressurized, unheated compartment) with med oxygen???? How big of a tard do you have to be????? I would literally have every single piece of personal belonging thrown out of the office if I ever let some bs like that happen!

I believe the argument is not that cutting corners is okay, but that medical oxygen is the same as aviators oxygen therefore no corner is being cut.

 

[scooter2525]

a Citation IV and pay the F/O $20,000/year, then you have no business owning said airplane.

Job link?

 

[ChasenSFO]

Job link?

It's an example, I saw on posting under $30k once...don't remember where. I think everyone missed the point of my post, it's not based on anything specific.

 

[scooter2525]

It's an example, I saw on posting under $30k once...don't remember where. I think everyone missed the point of my post, it's not based on anything specific.

I nos. Being sarcastic and all.

 

[dustoff17]

Medical oxygen from the fire department?

Probably the EMT side of the house rather than the fire fighting side...

I nos. Being sarcastic and all.

OH, so you wrote that for the lols?

 

[scooter2525]

OH, so you wrote that for the lols?

Yup!

 

[knot4u]

Being cheap about any kind of MX, including servicing O2, leads down a road that sometimes ends in failure. If you can't afford to operate the appliance don't buy it. I'd like to have a boat with a head, but I can't afford to actually take care of one.

 

[Boris Badenov]

For everyone who gets dead by being a cheap bastard, there are tens or hundreds who don't. It's all just a question of how much risk you're willing to assume (well, and how good you are at assessing it).

 

[MikeD]

For everyone who gets dead by being a cheap bastard, there are tens or hundreds who don't. It's all just a question of how much risk you're willing to assume (well, and how good you are at assessing it).

This is true. Where it gets dicey is where said owner begins assuming risk for people on the ground near airports or anywhere, who are unrelated to the pilot's decisions and have no say in running on the cheap or assuming high risk needlessly, and who end up as victims of those decisions when said airplane plows into their neighborhood, etc.

They end up paying the bar tab for drinks they never ordered or wanted.

 

[Apophis]

Job link?

And more importantly, what are the mins?

 

[tomokc]

I know a flight school owner who uses discarded spark plugs in his school's 172s. A friend saw him do it and challenged him. The response: "They're in better shape than the ones that are in there right now." That's SOP for him.

How do you stop someone like that?