Another BIG thanks to Jetblue.......

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Velocipede said:
How did they get to work in 2000? There are plenty of options for commuting besides jetBlue. If, for some reason, there was a Union boycott of jetBlue, how would they get to work?
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So if you lived somewhere with a nonstop to your domicile on B6, you'd take the two leg commute on mere principle?

There's an adjective for that....... and I'm not sure it's "noble"

stu........
 
Velocipede said:
...MORE airline pilots realize that professional courtesies and Union negotiated jumpseat privileges should not be extended to non-Union pilots who undercut Union contract?

Isn't that what you really meant to say?

A little censorship goes a long way in keeping the light of truth from shining under your rock, doesn't it?
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You really need help.
 
Chris_Ford said:
So if you lived somewhere with a nonstop to your domicile on B6, you'd take the two leg commute on mere principle?
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Absolutely. I don't patronize businesses on the ALPA boycott list. I refuse to shop at WalMart.
Why? Because I will never support scabs. Operations like WalMart, jetBlue, Virgin and Skybus are cut from the same cloth. They make money at the expense of labor. They drive the standard of living down for everyone except the gilded management class.

Principles are a wonderful thing. You should try it instead of just thinking of your own personal convenience.
 
Velocipede, there IS going to be an ALPA drive at Jetblue, soon.

Attacking Jetblue pilots doesn't work. Educating them what the benefits of a professional union like ALPA could bring to them works A LOT better.
 
Velocipede said:
Absolutely. I don't patronize businesses on the ALPA boycott list. I don't shop at WalMart.

Principles are a wonderful thing. You should try it instead of just thinking of your own personal convenience.

Its just your "me, me, me" kind of thinking that makes pilots our own worst enemies.
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Yawn. You're a funny man. Too bad you never got to work for a real airline. Hope you enjoy your "AAA ball" airline, as I like to call it.

My "me, me, me" kind of thinking hasn't done anything to the airline profession. It was actually your generation that allowed the B-scales and regional airlines. Blame jetBlue and the "young" guys all you want, but the fact of that matter is that YOU AND ALPA opened the doors for this.
 
Seggy said:
Velocipede, there IS going to be an ALPA drive at Jetblue, soon.
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The sooner the better. However, its too little too late. The jetBlue payrate damage has already been done. 20 years of "jacking the house" destroyed by a bunch of guys who sold themselves for $.60 on the dollar. At least Judas had the good sense to hang himself after he sold out Jesus.

Attacking their pilots instead of educating other professional aviators what the benefits of a professional union like ALPA could bring to them works A LOT better.
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Denying them the benefits of Union membership (jumpseat privileges) until they affiliate and start paying dues would be even more effective if everyone would get with the program. Professional courtesies should never be extended to those who actively undermine the profession.
 
IMO, it's never too late. so what happens if they get union leadership in? still gonna give em the finger? that seems really smart...

again, more reactive than proactive which does no one, no good.

question... is the jumpseat really a UNION deal or a COMPANY deal? i always thought it was company...
 
Velocipede said:
Professional courtesies should never be extended to those who actively undermine the profession.
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Using this rationale, IMO, this includes every regional pilot that worked for $20K per year...including myself. And the majority of these outfits are working for contracts negotiated by ALPA or other unions. The proliferation of connection carriers (union carriers) and their ridiculous pay and benefits has done more to harm the profession than anything else.
 
B767Driver said:
Using this rationale, IMO, this includes every regional pilot that worked for $20K per year...including myself. And the majority of these outfits are working for contracts negotiated by ALPA or other unions. The proliferation of connection carriers and their ridiculous pay and benefits has done more to harm the profession than anything else.
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And whom do we have to thank for that....


/looks at most legacy carriers
 
Velocipede said:
How did they get to work in 2000? There are plenty of options for commuting besides jetBlue. If, for some reason, there was a Union boycott of jetBlue, how would they get to work?
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Velocipede, with all the venom you've been spouting on the forum over the past few weeks about the continued degradation of our profession, you have failed to mention the bright spots.

Those being FedEx, UPS and SWA!

So not everything in the industry is doom & gloom, and not all CEO's are horrible, and not every airline has been affected by Jetblues's rates (as you state.) If fact in spite of JTBLU's lower rates and industry wide concessions, some airlines and pilot groups and management are raising the bar!
 
Kristie said:
IMO, it's never too late. so what happens if they get union leadership in? still gonna give em the finger? that seems really smart...
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Nope. Union pilots (even inhouse unions) are welcome aboard. Why? Currently its SWAPA who has the highest narrowbody pay scale. If they're going to carry our water, they are welcome to ride.

question... is the jumpseat really a UNION deal or a COMPANY deal? i always thought it was company...
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You didn't really say this did you? I thought you were married to a DAL pilot. It took YEARS and contractual concessions before DAL pilots were allowed access to their own jumpseat, much less the ability to reciprocate. Please say you're joking on this one...
 
B767Driver said:
Using this rationale, IMO, this includes every regional pilot that worked for $20K per year...including myself. And the majority of these outfits are working for contracts negotiated by ALPA or other unions. The proliferation of connection carriers (union carriers) and their ridiculous pay and benefits has done more to harm the profession than anything else.
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I guess you could look at it that way. But regional pay scales do not DIRECTLY undermine major airline pay scales. Until the regionals start flying 737s or A320s, that is.

For that reason I'll give them a ride as well. Union contracts have to reflect the reality of the individual airline's situation. AWA had the WORST ALPA contract going for years. It takes several cycles to improve your contract language.

Regional guys are either just starting up the ladder or are there either by preference or for personal reasons. Since they aren't using comparable equipment, they aren't affecting my payscale.
 
Velocipede said:
I guess you could look at it that way. But regional pay scales do not DIRECTLY undermine major airline pay scales. Until the regionals start flying 737s or A320s, that is.

For that reason I'll give them a ride as well. Union contracts have to reflect the reality of the individual airline's situation. AWA had the WORST ALPA contract going for years. It takes several cycles to improve your contract language.

Regional guys are either just starting up the ladder or are there either by preference or for personal reasons. Since they aren't using comparable equipment, they aren't affecting my payscale.
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I'd take issue with your assessment. They are flying equipment on routes that I use to fly with 737's and 727's and have infringed upon the scope of mainline flying more than substantially. This has harmed the career and progression of mainline pilots as much as any erosion in pay.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Velocipede, with all the venom you've been spouting on the forum over the past few weeks
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Max,

I think if you read the threads closely, you'll see the venom is mostly directed at me, not from me.

FedEx, UPS and SWA!
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Two cargo carriers and, arguably, the most profitable passenger airline in the U.S.

...not every airline has been affected by Jetblues's rates (as you state.) If fact in spite of JTBLU's lower rates and industry wide concessions, some airlines and pilot groups and management are raising the bar!
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No, just the Legacy carriers. So, other than cargo airlines and SWAPA, go ahead and name me a couple airlines raising the bar...go ahead.

I'm waiting...

Can't, can you? However, I can name the ones lowering the bar...Skybus, Virgin America and jetBlue in that order. I suppose you could argue (as most jetBlue pilots do) that now the Legacy pay rates are equal to jetBlue, they are no longer lowering the bar and therefore they deserve equal professional courtesy status.

The new entrants in the 'lower the bar' catagory are Skybus and Virgin. What will really be funny is when jetBlue's management puts the whole airline on the EMB pay scale (EMB-scale) to compete with Skybus and Virgin. And you know what jetBlue pilots will have to say about it?

Nothing. Because they don't have a contract, they'll be forced to accept the pay scale or pound sand. At that point the shoe will be on the other foot. How many Skybus and Virgin pilots will be getting jetBlue jumpseat rides then?
 
I love these threads. It's quite amusing how Velocipede skirts others questions to push his own agenda. I don't know how many posts with direct questions are ignored simply because they smartly challenge his stance on this issue. It makes for great entertainment.

JetBlue pilots, you are welcome on my jumpseat any day of the week.
 
Seggy said:
Velocipede, there IS going to be an ALPA drive at Jetblue, soon.
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Hate to burst your bubble by IMO it is highly unlikely ALPA will get voted in here. In-house, maybe. Somebody else, maybe. ALPA, no way. There is way to much ill will towards them. Lots of USAir furloughees here, not to mention an overwhelming disdain for ALPA among the pilot group in general (with some exceptions of course).
 
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