Announcement Ending 05/02

Hey, it's me from PUBNAT3 again with an experience question.

Did you guys get your AT-SAT scores before the last person finished testing in your group? I'm just curious, PUBNAT3 has been testing since last week and ends this week (from what it looks like) and no one has mentioned getting a score yet.

Also, when you guys did your scenerios portion, do you have any tips on how to make little traffic patterns that are efficient? I saw someone post that they were getting penalties for having the plane fly parallel to the wall too close, which is what I'd been doing for my pattern...need to figure something else out.

Thanks guys! I'm glad that you're all finally getting your geo prefs :-)
 
HonuPineapple said:
Hey, it's me from PUBNAT3 again with an experience question.

Did you guys get your AT-SAT scores before the last person finished testing in your group? I'm just curious, PUBNAT3 has been testing since last week and ends this week (from what it looks like) and no one has mentioned getting a score yet.

Also, when you guys did your scenerios portion, do you have any tips on how to make little traffic patterns that are efficient? I saw someone post that they were getting penalties for having the plane fly parallel to the wall too close, which is what I'd been doing for my pattern...need to figure something else out.

Thanks guys! I'm glad that you're all finally getting your geo prefs :-)
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I do believe people got their scores before the whole group finished testing. To answer your second question, just keep the separation and you'll do fine. I didn't always do a left pattern or a right pattern but rather whatever was closest for that aircraft. They just look for efficiency in general. My efficiency scores were something like 88 94 78 and 86. Don't hesitate to give them a complete 180 or altitude change when they stack two planes on top of one another and accept the handoffs as soon as you see them and you'll be gravy. Best of luck. Let us know how you make out.
 
ohioaviator said:
I do believe people got their scores before the whole group finished testing. To answer your second question, just keep the separation and you'll do fine. I didn't always do a left pattern or a right pattern but rather whatever was closest for that aircraft. They just look for efficiency in general. My efficiency scores were something like 88 94 78 and 86. Don't hesitate to give them a complete 180 or altitude change when they stack two planes on top of one another and accept the handoffs as soon as you see them and you'll be gravy. Best of luck. Let us know how you make out.
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:yeahthat: Our scores seem to have been put up on ASAP depending on the day we took it (everyone on one day would get it the next day, but others from another day would wait a week)... I guess it just depends on who's handling that part.

And for the scenarios... they're scoring you on efficiency. Get the aircraft to it's destination as quickly as possible. I really didn't do any kind of pattern because I knew it was all about getting them there quickly and a nice pattern wouldn't have helped the score. I kept everything on fast and pointed them in straight lines going towards their destinations... then I'd slow down the aircraft that were landing once they got closer the airport. My efficiency scores were mostly mid-80s.
 
MissATC said:
My assumption was that was the point of the 3 year training at your facility...so that you go from zero experience to learning the ropes.
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What I have been told by controllers I have spoken to is that ARTCCs are better set up for training people who have no prior ATC facility opposed to a level 10+ TRACON. While there are "trainers" there, their training is more focused on taking someone who has come from a lower level facility and getting them up to speed and checked out at the new facility.

ATLTRACON has spoken about this more than a few times, he and others strongly reccomend ANY new hire avoiding a high level terminal facility if at all possible. So, while these facilities pay just as well as the level 11-12 centers, there is also a higher risk of washing out. I can tell you from my interactions with the Atlanta TRACON as a private pilot that there is NO "quiet" position in that entire facility and it is fairly obvious (to me, anyway) when there is someone new to the facility on a sector, and that person likely has prior experience elsewhere.

Basically, if your only motivation for doing this is money and you don't want to sit in a dark room all day, every day, then you might want to re-think your career ambitions. Just from my perspective outside the FAA, the pay at a level 7-8, even at current pay levels isn't horrible for the amount of experience and/or education the FAA requires and for the amount of time you have to have to put in to get to that pay grade. Unless you're just unusually talented or gifted with a very in-demand skill or ability, to reach that kind of pay with most private sector jobs will take 5+ years of experience with almost no expectation of any kind of job security over a 10 year period. So basically, if your passion is for the job itself, then accept that you may have to spend a few years in a lower level facility if you choose the terminal route before moving up to the big show with the higher pay levels.

Please note that I'm not condoning or endorsing the current pay scale, but just trying to provide a little perspective. Personally, the whole fix the FAA is in right now just reeks of the entire convoluted mess our government is in, and has been in, for quite some time. But that's another discussion for another time.
 
I have been hearing for a while now about the pay difference between lower level tower jobs versus the notoriously stressful en route jobs. I was wondering if anybody knows just how different the pay level are.

Can a person make a good living at a lower level terminal job if they are looking for something less stressful? Sometimes it sounds like those jobs don't pay well at all.

It would be nice if there was somewhere that you could find pay levels for different positions in different facilities across the U.S.
 
Mathlete said:
I have been hearing for a while now about the pay difference between lower level tower jobs versus the notoriously stressful en route jobs. I was wondering if anybody knows just how different the pay level are.

Can a person make a good living at a lower level terminal job if they are looking for something less stressful? Sometimes it sounds like those jobs don't pay well at all.

It would be nice if there was somewhere that you could find pay levels for different positions in different facilities across the U.S.
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Here are the facility levels:
http://faaimposedpayrules.natca.net/localityratesrev13.xls
The level rating is in the column, "ATC Level, July 2007" As you can tell by the date, it MIGHT be entirely up to date, but it's all that is available publicly.
All facilities are numbered based on their complexity. It doesn't matter if its Terminal or En Route, the pay is the same.

and here's the pay scale:
https://employees.faa.gov/employee_services/pay_perf/pay/media/ATSPP_pay_bands_no_locality.xls
 
Mathlete said:
I have been hearing for a while now about the pay difference between lower level tower jobs versus the notoriously stressful en route jobs. I was wondering if anybody knows just how different the pay level are.

Can a person make a good living at a lower level terminal job if they are looking for something less stressful? Sometimes it sounds like those jobs don't pay well at all.

It would be nice if there was somewhere that you could find pay levels for different positions in different facilities across the U.S.
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I'll put it this way, someone who makes CPC at a Level 7 facility, straight out of college or with no college experience will make about where I am right now after working in the field for 7 years. Granted, I'd probably be doing a little better if I hadn't gotten bumped around 3 different jobs in the past 2 years, but I digress. Unless you live an extravagant lifestyle, you should be able to get along pretty well on a salary like that except in some very select parts of the country where the cost of living is just out of control.

It would be up to each individual to decide on if the pay is worth the job or not.
 
So yesterday I toured the Fort Worth Alliance tower (KAFW). It was pretty cool. I wasn't sure what to expect out of the whole experience. I emailed the contact on the website asking about how to get a tour, and the lady replied with a phone number direct to the tower. A phone call later and I had a date and time set up. I went with my friend who is also an applicant.

It's a level 5 facility, so traffic was low. The tower is very beautifully constructed and it seemed like a really inviting place to work. They let us hang out with them for about 3 and a half hours, even after the office employee escorting us had left for the day. We got to see some FedEx heavies depart, several citations and gulfstreams arrive/depart, and some T38s arrive and depart. Everyone was really friendly and willing to explain what was going on (I have a long history of being an aviation enthusiast with some flight training, and my friend is a private pilot, so we weren't completely alien to the conrolling environment). They had a developmental working that day, as well as a guy who was certified recently. One was a CTI applicant and the other was an ex military controller, so they couldn't really offer a whole lot of advice for us OTS guys, since the experience was vastly different for them.

Anyway, I would encourage anyone to check out a facility near you, even if it's not one you plan on going to. I'm kinda turned off to the pay grade of AFW, but regardless it's highly unlikely I'd be placed there simply because it's a low-staffed tower. It seemed like a great place to work otherwise. I'd be willing to answer any questions about what I saw in the cab of the tower if anyone has any.
 
FWIW, the CTI application for the next hiring panel closes August 26th and for the last panels, referral lists were created out only 6 days after the CTI announcement closed.
 
Freezer41 said:
FWIW, the CTI application for the next hiring panel closes August 26th and for the last panels, referral lists were created out only 6 days after the CTI announcement closed.
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How do you like the prospect of working at LAX. I put that facility down in the comments section of my geo pref. Hopefully I'll get a TOL like yourself
 
mah584jr said:
How do you like the prospect of working at LAX. I put that facility down in the comments section of my geo pref. Hopefully I'll get a TOL like yourself
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At first I was disappointed. I didn't want to move to Southern California. I didn't have the luxury of choosing counties in the CTI application and the first time I submitted the paperwork I left CA off my list due to the 50/50 chance of getting a facility in SoCal not to mention the TWO ARTCCs which I most definitely didn't want... again CTI no choice terminal or enroute. It was a last minute decision to put California and was pretty much based on my girlfriend and remaining close to her family. I tried to redirect facilities but the LAX District Manager wanted to keep me in process for LAX. After research of the area surrounding LAX, I'm pretty excited. It sure is going to be a challenge starting at a facility like that though.
 
So I took my AT-SAT today and wanted to ask you experienced folks about the math...

1. Dials - very easy!
2. Math - Yikes. I didn't finish them all :-( Oh man...
3. Scan - Not bad, goes by quickly
4. Angles - Easy, but there were 1 or 2 where it was close.
5. Letter Factory - as expected. Some questions fine, others hard. Moving letters/boxes easy.
6. Scenerios - rocked it
7. Analogies - strange, but I did OK I think


I didn't finish 2, and had to click too quickly through maybe 3 or 4 of them so I'm not sure they're right. It started off very easy for the first half or so, then the uneven division started to get me.

Did anyone feel like they did badly on the math but end up OK? I'm worried about the math. That seems like the most important part of this test.
 
Honu: Too late now, but I hope you didn't second guess yourself on the math... first insta-calculation is usually correct :)

Keep us posted!!
 
ATC Hopeful -

I saw you posted the PUBNAT6 thread, but I figured it'd be more appropriate to ask here... did you get any new information regarding panels, PEPCs, etc, or is it the same things we've been hearing/speculating?
 
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