mooneyguy
been around forever
No you dont! Its the military. Dont like it dont join! Military plays by their rules!
Angry T-38 flight instructor and foreign student...
- Thread starter bunk22
- Start date
No you dont! Its the military. Dont like it dont join! Military plays by their rules!
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I agree.....there are things that have been screamed at me (and others that I know) in mil training that would get a civilian CFI fired in a New York minute, no matter how good or experienced they were. It's a modern military with women integrated into the system, so of course many places are more "PC", but trust me when I say that mil jet training is as old school as you can still find anywhere. From a student's perspective, you can call it unprofessional, or you can simply take it like a man, laugh it off, and recognize that the brutal honesty is there to make you better.....not to hurt your feelings.
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
I heard second hand from a Naval aviator who did a VT squadron tour that he was flying with a Saudi student was having a proverbial helmet fire on an ILS in IMC and approaching DH took his hands of the throttles and stick held them above his head and starting screaming "Allah will provide". Then I heard a similar story years later, so I don't know if it was legend or a common occurence. Pretty darn funny either way.
bunk22
Well-Known Member
Tough in the military at times I think. Was this IP a dick at the moment? Yes, but it's frustrating flying with foriegn military students. I have first had experience with it. I also tried not to yell in the cockpit, but there were times I had to light a stud up and it was colorful. It is the military afterall and yelling is often a common theme. I expect a few things from a military flight student...be on time, have your brief squared away, know your , be ready to fly and thus, know your . It's okay if you don't fly well (most didn't) but you had better listen to me and do what I tell you.
I remember one of my last flights, a BI flight...as easy as they come. We brief that there is a positive three way change of controls...I have controls, you have controls, I have controls. I happened to help this kid out by putting him on altitude being he was constantly low. After about 20 seconds the aircraft starts to kind of do its own thing and I know he isn't flying it. I ask him why he isn't flying the aircraft and he says, sir I thought you had it. Yeah? When the **** did I say I had it..WTF did we brief, 3 way positive change of controls. Now fly the ****ing plane. I was a dick but mostly for a reason...so he won't forget. So sometimes, you do it out of frustration and others times as a learning tool. This IP was doing it out of frustration I think.
I agree, however, he was yelling and screaming and being totally unprofessional, but most importantly. . .he wasn't effective. True, he wasn't professional. Yes, he sounded really stupid; yep, he got a laugh out of me. Had he been a co-worker and heard the video, I would've clowned on him too.
Orange Anchor
New Member
In southeast Asia, I was instructing some 'foreign nationals' in FACing. We were driving around in a skid, slow and near the stall. I asked the 'student' if he knew we were slow. He said, "Yes" with typical enthusiasm. I asked if he knew we were in a skid. Again, 'YES". I asked if he knew that at our altitude if we stalled, we would probably spin and did not have enough altitude to recover before we would hit the ground. Again, "Yes." I said, "I have the airplane" and again, "Yes."
Some do not want to 'lose face' and even though they may be totally loss, admitting they don't know is not an option.
In pilot training we had some Saudis. We were in the RSU when one Saudi knew the proper calls for entering the pattern. The call was "Bigfoot 22.. initial.. zero fuel." The RSU supervisor said, "No one say anything."
22 pitched out, configured and landed and flamed out rolling out.
Sometimes you just gotta go with the flow.
Some do not want to 'lose face' and even though they may be totally loss, admitting they don't know is not an option.
In pilot training we had some Saudis. We were in the RSU when one Saudi knew the proper calls for entering the pattern. The call was "Bigfoot 22.. initial.. zero fuel." The RSU supervisor said, "No one say anything."
22 pitched out, configured and landed and flamed out rolling out.
Sometimes you just gotta go with the flow.
I'm sure there are several variations of the story that goes along with the video, but the one I heard went something like this: The IP was known for being a jerk on the plane so the student decided to crank the heat and play "the language card" fully knowing what he was doing just so he could mess with the IP. Is it true? I don't know, I cannot verify that, it's what I was told a year or so ago.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
That's a BS story. The Japanese exchange student was an IFF student of mine after he graduated at Columbus, and he really did have language issues.
We ended up getting one of the IPs who spoke some Japanese to talk and fly with him occasionally. There was another Japanese student in the pipeline at the time, too (but in a class ahead of him) who helped explain things that didn't clearly translate from the academics and flight briefs.
I didn't know the IP personally, but from what I've heard from people who did fly with him, he was a good instructor and this incident was pretty uncharacteristic from him.
Fair enough, you know how some stories can go from "dude threw a rock at me." to "Jerk throw a frigging cinder block at my head, I'm lucky to be alive!"
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Ask anyone who has taught foreign flight students, it can make Mr Rodgers turn into GySgt Hartman.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
That's an example of a not-so-great instructional input given the circumstances.
There are definitely times for different types of instruction, from asking a question ("what do you think we should do now?"), to prompting ("check the airspace border..."), to coaching ("pull a little harder so we don't get so close to the border"), to directing ("hard right for airspace"), to intervening ("I have the aircraft").
They're all valid, and none of them are fundamentally better than the other. You have to decide which one to use and when, and it all depends on the student, the phase of training, the conditions, the situation, etc.
In the case of handling a non-English speaker who is doing something the instructor can't physically intervene with, you are limited to everything before that.
mooneyguy
been around forever
very very true
frog_flyer
FredFlyer
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