An interesting take on "quitting"

I love my life. I’ve been blessed to see and do many things.

Many of you share the same sentiment, but from different vantage points.

Good on this guy for being happy, especially if he can do it within aviation.

As for newbie FO’s: It’s our job to mould them. We have the tools. I suppose how deep your toolbox is the only question.
 
Last edited:
chrisreedrules said:
I enjoy being a CA, but I would enjoy it way less if I didn’t have the expereince I did in the right seat before deciding to upgrade.

I really enjoy flying with those who like to learn and we can discuss technique and reasons for different things etc. At my shop they are forcing upgrades so a “senior” FO here has 850-900 hours of SIC time. I fly with some who are going off to upgrade in a couple months and couldn’t be more clueless.
Click to expand...

I’m honestly really amazed there hasn’t been a serious accident yet due to this. All of the regionals are experiencing it right now.
 
It’s a pay issue. Always has been, most likely always will be. Instead of paying to attract qualified Captains, airline management would prefer to be as cheap as they can as long as they can.

It’s a business, I get it. But don’t think that they haven’t worked out the exact cost of an accident or incident and ran those numbers against paying to attract qualified Captains. Guess which option was cheaper?

I pray to Jah nothing happens. And I’m confident that the current safety measures in place do a well enough job. But the level of inexperience now upfront in the cockpits of aircraft at many regionals is worrisome.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I enjoy being a CA, but I would enjoy it way less if I didn’t have the expereince I did in the right seat before deciding to upgrade.

I really enjoy flying with those who like to learn and we can discuss technique and reasons for different things etc. At my shop they are forcing upgrades so a “senior” FO here has 850-900 hours of SIC time. I fly with some who are going off to upgrade in a couple months and couldn’t be more clueless.
Click to expand...
This is why I end my initial brief with something along the lines of, “you’re going to upgrade faster and quicker than you think, please ask as many questions as possible and I’ll do my best to answer them or point you in the right direction.” I’ll let them decide whether it’s a good idea to do a single engine taxi, which way we should go for weather, should we climb or descend to get a better ride. When we hold, I don’t even initially calculate our bingo fuel. I give the paperwork to the FO and say, “what do you think man?” They are all captains in training and I think it’s part of my job to get them prepared for the left seat.
 
Jordan93 said:
This is why I end my initial brief with something along the lines of, “you’re going to upgrade faster and quicker than you think, please ask as many questions as possible and I’ll do my best to answer them or point you in the right direction.” I’ll let them decide whether it’s a good idea to do a single engine taxi, which way we should go for weather, should we climb or descend to get a better ride. When we hold, I don’t even initially calculate our bingo fuel. I give the paperwork to the FO and say, “what do you think man?” They are all captains in training and I think it’s part of my job to get them prepared for the left seat.
Click to expand...

I say something similar. I don’t try to “scare” them per se but I definitely tell my FOs that, “this is going to come very quick for you and you don’t have the luxury to sit over there and not pay attention. Ask questions, make decisions, and don’t be afraid to speak up.”

The reality is that FOs are upgrading before they really have the chance to know what they don’t know. And then they are sitting reserve and often times flying with very brand new FOs who also don’t know what they don’t know. The don’t knows and the don’t know what they don’t knows are looking to the left seat for guidance and as an example and this can lead to issues in my experience.
 
chrisreedrules said:
It’s a pay issue. Always has been, most likely always will be. Instead of paying to attract qualified Captains, airline management would prefer to be as cheap as they can as long as they can.

It’s a business, I get it. But don’t think that they haven’t worked out the exact cost of an accident or incident and ran those numbers against paying to attract qualified Captains. Guess which option was cheaper?

I pray to Jah nothing happens. And I’m confident that the current safety measures in place do a well enough job. But the level of inexperience now upfront in the cockpits of aircraft at many regionals is worrisome.
Click to expand...

So what happens if a forced upgrade says he isn't ready and make that statement a matter of record (i.e., sends an email)? What happens then? Pushed through or terminated? I think AA got rid of the up or out policy a long time ago.
 
Quarryman said:
So what happens if a forced upgrade says he isn't ready and make that statement a matter of record (i.e., sends an email)? What happens then? Pushed through or terminated? I think AA got rid of the up or out policy a long time ago.
Click to expand...
Probably terminated
 
Quarryman said:
So what happens if a forced upgrade says he isn't ready and make that statement a matter of record (i.e., sends an email)? What happens then? Pushed through or terminated? I think AA got rid of the up or out policy a long time ago.
Click to expand...

They’ll probably let the pilot go.
 
I think if you approach flying copilot as “I’m going to be in the left seat tomorrow, how would I handle this” you’ll be fine.

So many guys sit in the right seat and are basically there for the ride, it might be an eye opener.
 
Derg said:
I think if you approach flying copilot as “I’m going to be in the left seat tomorrow, how would I handle this” you’ll be fine.

So many guys sit in the right seat and are basically there for the ride, it might be an eye opener.
Click to expand...
It should balance itself out in the end.
Flew with a couple of guys that were first/second trip of OE.
One was trying hard, did cat ii functional check, had "no man left behind" attitude when we got overfueled and the simple (and, technically, right by the book) thing to do was to unload a couple pax and a couple nonrevs. Did get to the "what do you think we should do?" conversation and corresponding stare, but I'm ok with that. I think the guy did great and will be alright. He's a 1000 hr upgrade, 172 ca before that
Had to pretty much walk another guy through writing up a mechanical, crew placarding stuff, while dealing with the outstation to accommodate our changed needs. Great guy otherwise - just got used to the right seat over the last 11 years and got forced displaced to the left for a few months before flowing.

I have a dream (tm) that at some point it will become nice and balanced and smooth flowing and predictable career progression. Damn pendulum swings too much
 
Derg said:
I think if you approach flying copilot as “I’m going to be in the left seat tomorrow, how would I handle this” you’ll be fine.

So many guys sit in the right seat and are basically there for the ride, it might be an eye opener.
Click to expand...

I make a lot of ASAP counselling calls to Captains at my shop. Particularly the new ones. Sometimes you just want to reach out and slap them through the phone. "You did what!?". But, you know, sole source report, just culture, want to encourage reporting, etc. On the other hand... "Dude bro", you gots 76 lives behind your cockpit door. Put down the gopro and MONITOR THE AIRPLANE.
 
Derg said:
I think if you approach flying copilot as “I’m going to be in the left seat tomorrow, how would I handle this” you’ll be fine.

So many guys sit in the right seat and are basically there for the ride, it might be an eye opener.
Click to expand...

The issue, recently, with folks going back into their second career after being successful seems to be a lack of interest in upgrading. More than half of my FOs are twice my age, and most still run some sort of business but always wanted to fly a jet; they say they will never upgrade because it is too much work and they don't care for the responsibility.
Being at an airline with a fast moving seniority list (with almost zero FOs legally eligible to upgrade again), combined with the lack of interest and nonchalance of someone who doesn't really need the job or career progression, management has painted themselves into a corner now that half of their check airmen are leaving to the mainline partner in the next 6 months (they still need even more pilots since they're also growing).
It's going to get real weird, real quick.
 
bimmerphile said:
The issue, recently, with folks going back into their second career after being successful seems to be a lack of interest in upgrading. More than half of my FOs are twice my age, and most still run some sort of business but always wanted to fly a jet; they say they will never upgrade because it is too much work and they don't care for the responsibility.
Being at an airline with a fast moving seniority list (with almost zero FOs legally eligible to upgrade again), combined with the lack of interest and nonchalance of someone who doesn't really need the job or career progression, management has painted themselves into a corner now that half of their check airmen are leaving to the mainline partner in the next 6 months (they still need even more pilots since they're also growing).
It's going to get real weird, real quick.
Click to expand...

Those guys are definitely a problem. Having some skin in the game provides a lot of motivation to bring your “A game”, and so on.

If it’s just your hobby, then you (most likely) aren’t going to be as motivated as a guy/lady doing this as your main career. At least from what I’ve seen of those older career changer types. Not all of course... Just a lot of them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top