An interesting take on "quitting"

I didn’t sense any entitlement. But his reasoning is sure full of holes. Personally, there’s no amount of money you could give me to go back to being a CFI. I hated that job. But if he wants to do it for a while, go for it. I just think he’ll end up regretting it later when he’s a 40 year old CFI and his buddies from flight school are all at the legacies.
 
Derg said:
Far better up the food chain and, ZOMG, it might suck in the in-between time when you're learning the business.

That's about… Anything you do, but no, you're never going to start out on top with the best work conditions.
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This is “true-ish.” Some places start out with much better work rules and pay than aviation does. And if pay is what motivates you, there are jobs in aviation that are objectively better (or really were until quite recently) for new guys to start with than RJ-land. Pay at the airlines is stacked towards the “end” of your career not towards the front or even evenly throughout in 121. For some people that’s not really a viable option. With 3 kids, short of winning the lottery, there’s no way I could have survived on the “$18,000 good pay” that existed only a few short years ago - nor would I have wanted to.

Don’t get me wrong, flying airplanes is a great job and the long term earnings are almost always better in 121 unless you fill a very special niche in the industry or live up here and work a few very special jobs, but this idea that it’s ok for there to be some level of suffering we have to endure early on is silly. In terms of “work hours vs money” 121 always wins as best as I can tell in the long run. Still - we shouldn’t have to “pay dues” at <insert broke dick rate here> with <insert crappy work rules here> because it’s some kind of noble or honorable tradition. It’s flat out wrong how this industry treats low time and just starting guys.

It’s easy from the top of mainline mountain to say, “yeah! It’s awesome, totally worth it,” but when a lot of guys never make it to the brass ring I think the idea that airlines with jets that cross continents are “stepping stones” is flawed.

ATN_Pilot said:
I didn’t sense any entitlement. But his reasoning is sure full of holes. Personally, there’s no amount of money you could give me to go back to being a CFI. I hated that job. But if he wants to do it for a while, go for it. I just think he’ll end up regretting it later when he’s a 40 year old CFI and his buddies from flight school are all at the legacies.
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It will highly depend on how his business does I think. If his business does well then the opportunity cost will look low in retrospect and he’ll sleep easy. If he looks to reenter 121 in 10 years because it didn’t work out then I suspect you will be right.

Still - if you don’t enjoy what you’re doing stop. One of the major life regrets of the elderly is staying at a crappy job for too long or being away too much. He alluded that he had a family so my suspicion being gone for large blocks of time every month isn’t something he can manage and still feel good about his life. I wish him luck and think, “good for him, I hope that makes him happy!”
 
It seems like what comes off as entitlement to us old(er) guys is the new norm. I've gotten some lessons in dealing with young FO's who've only known this cycle and I don't think I've completely learned how to lead them. (That's why I ran away and took a job with an older more crotchety guy than myself, back in my happy place!)
I don't even think this guy is completely coming off this way, though. I think this is a great example of how we are all individuals with very unique views of ourselves, often very different from the way other people view us. (Because we skew our perspective with our own ideas of self worth).
Good on him for having the guts to act on what he thinks is the right thing to do. Reminds me of my favorite quote...
"Be sure you're right, then bravely go ahead"
-unknown, other than my Dad
it takes a lot of work to be a good teacher and his heart is clearly in it. It also takes a lot of work to produce good content. I think this guy will have a positive effect on a lot of people and will end up doing just fine in this whacky career.
Someone should invite him to join our group, I think he would make a good addition, running around all over our "lawn".
Anyway, I'll let you know in twenty years if I've made the right choices, but right now I have to go study systems.
 
This guy deserves a swift kick in the nuts for giving away a lucrative and enjoyable career. However, if ole boy can’t hack it today when things are all sunshine, he’d never make it when that first displacement bid comes rolling around.
 
JeppUpdater said:
Dude's wearing a hat indoors and has a chart on the wall.

Can't even bring myself to click play on that.
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I’ve never figured out people that wear hats indoors either. My dad would have thumped me in the back of the head as a kid if I didn’t take my hat off.
 
Y’all are funny. I remember when the Swayne Martin videos got posted and a ton of people roasted the guy for being enthusiastic about his job because it was terrible and he should me miserable.

This guy comes along, isn’t really moaning, just explaining why it’s not really his cup of tea, and he gets roasted too.
My FO life went from never touching an airplane on reserve to being a relatively senior lineholder in a base with easy trips and in a city I wanted to live in. After upgrade, a horrible commute, and my general luck of crap raining on me when I leave the house, I can understand a lot of his gripes. That said, the money is... nice. And it’s one of those necessary evils to advance.
 
It’s just funny to me that in this day and age, there are no real surprises out there. He knew exactly what he was getting into. And then when exactly what he thinks is going to happen happens, he quits and makes videos about it. The whole thing just seems dumb.

Complains about student loans, quits job with tremendous upside potential right now because, “reserve like, sucks dude”.

Says they miss teaching, but doesn’t mention the possibility of being a check airman at their airline eventually.

I guess I just don’t get it. The quality of FOs is getting worse these days. And seeing that doesn’t help change my opinion to the contrary.
 
mastermags said:
Some guys just aren’t cut out to be airline pilots. Thats fine, its not for everyone. I just don’t understand why everyone has to make a dramatic youtube video to talk about their business these days.
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So what you're trying to say is that my idea for a 35-minute "explainer" video about why my afternoon poop was so spicy isn't a newsworthy event?

Such a killjoy. That's what VapeLyfe has made you.
 
chrisreedrules said:
It’s just funny to me that in this day and age, there are no real surprises out there. He knew exactly what he was getting into. And then when exactly what he thinks is going to happen happens, he quits and makes videos about it. The whole thing just seems dumb.

Complains about student loans, quits job with tremendous upside potential right now because, “reserve like, sucks dude”.

Says they miss teaching, but doesn’t mention the possibility of being a check airman at their airline eventually.

I guess I just don’t get it. The quality of FOs is getting worse these days. And seeing that doesn’t help change my opinion to the contrary.
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You'll see that some of the new guys really don't give a poop about any guidance you offer, but others literally absorb it like a sponge.

I tried to talk a copilot out of rushing off to NYC to fly captain and to take the opportunity to go fly big jets far places. Basically told me I was full of dookie, meanwhile, six months later he's bitching at me about commuting to reserve, flying with new pilots that don't want to listen (LOL) and how much more stressful his life is.

"David, I really don't want to remind you about how ironic this conversation is"

True story.
 
Derg said:
You'll see that some of the new guys really don't give a poop about any guidance you offer, but others literally absorb it like a sponge.

I tried to talk a copilot out of rushing off to NYC to fly captain and to take the opportunity to go fly big jets far places. Basically told me I was full of dookie, meanwhile, six months later he's bitching at me about commuting to reserve, flying with new pilots that don't want to listen (LOL) and how much more stressful his life is.

"David, I really don't want to remind you about how ironic this conversation is"

True story.
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I enjoy being a CA, but I would enjoy it way less if I didn’t have the expereince I did in the right seat before deciding to upgrade.

I really enjoy flying with those who like to learn and we can discuss technique and reasons for different things etc. At my shop they are forcing upgrades so a “senior” FO here has 850-900 hours of SIC time. I fly with some who are going off to upgrade in a couple months and couldn’t be more clueless.
 
Derg said:
You'll see that some of the new guys really don't give a poop about any guidance you offer, but others literally absorb it like a sponge.

I tried to talk a copilot out of rushing off to NYC to fly captain and to take the opportunity to go fly big jets far places. Basically told me I was full of dookie, meanwhile, six months later he's bitching at me about commuting to reserve, flying with new pilots that don't want to listen (LOL) and how much more stressful his life is.

"David, I really don't want to remind you about how ironic this conversation is"

True story.
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On the other hand there are a wide array of really successful dudes who think their path and their guidance is good for literally everyone. Not saying you're doing this here, but I kind of admire the guy saying, "nah, screw this, life is short I want to do something I enjoy." Would his life be "better" if he stayed at US_Midwest_Aloha_Transstates_expressssssss in the long run? Maybe? Depends on how you look at it. What does he "want" out of life? If it's to "feel fulfilled flying little airplanes around and spend as little time away from family as possible" then maybe breaking rocks in 121 doesn't do it.

I mean - definitely don't listen to me for career advice, but life advice, I gots that stuff in spades. There's a lot more to life than flying airplanes around for a living and there's far more to life than your pocketbook. I know a whole slew of guys who made great and fulfilling lives for themselves flying little airplanes around Alaska. They made decent money and had a relatively high QoL the whole time. One of them in particular stands out to me - he lived in OME with his wife and kids for 17 years doing all the stuff he loved - he flew airplanes during the day, hunted, fished, trapped and lived off the land, spent tons of time with his wife and kids and slept in his own bed every night. He took a month every winter to go someplace warm and had weekends off. When he finally left the bush, he'd invested his money wisely enough such that he doesn't want for anything now and essentially flies for fun. Did he make more money than the guys who went to FedEx? Probably not. But the dude is better off than the vast majority of 121 drivers I know - he has no alimony/child support payments, he never dealt with airline bankruptcies, union battles, or losing his retirement, he never flew the backside of the clock and he never missed a recital or a holiday, that's hard to put a price on. I know a ton of guys like this - I don't know many 121 dudes who didn't make some serious sacrifices in some other area of their life to get to the proverbial finish line.

Don't get me wrong - Hawaiian calls up, I'm dropping everything and running. But the truth of the matter is, the 121 career path ain't for everyone, and it's better to be happy than have a bunch of money and type ratings. Yeah if you can do both, that's ideal, but happiness is wildly underrated in our society.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I enjoy being a CA, but I would enjoy it way less if I didn’t have the expereince I did in the right seat before deciding to upgrade.

I really enjoy flying with those who like to learn and we can discuss technique and reasons for different things etc. At my shop they are forcing upgrades so a “senior” FO here has 850-900 hours of SIC time. I fly with some who are going off to upgrade in a couple months and couldn’t be more clueless.
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If you haven't figured it out by 8-900 hours in the right seat, this might not be the career for you.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I enjoy being a CA, but I would enjoy it way less if I didn’t have the expereince I did in the right seat before deciding to upgrade.

I really enjoy flying with those who like to learn and we can discuss technique and reasons for different things etc. At my shop they are forcing upgrades so a “senior” FO here has 850-900 hours of SIC time. I fly with some who are going off to upgrade in a couple months and couldn’t be more clueless.
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Sweet holy crap. I interviewed and was given a job at your shop as a street captain. Other than the guy in the simulator I felt like I was being interviewed by the cub scouts.

I ended up passing on the gig because of someone’s lack of ability to use email. As frustrated as I was being an 8 years FO at ASA, it was a blessing in disguise.
 
chrisreedrules said:
I enjoy being a CA, but I would enjoy it way less if I didn’t have the expereince I did in the right seat before deciding to upgrade.

I really enjoy flying with those who like to learn and we can discuss technique and reasons for different things etc. At my shop they are forcing upgrades so a “senior” FO here has 850-900 hours of SIC time. I fly with some who are going off to upgrade in a couple months and couldn’t be more clueless.
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Homeboy thought it was "completely normal" to have a pushback clearance before you're even done boarding. The concept was that "I spent some time at (regional)* and I'm not a newbie"





*One month
 
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