Amerijet On Strike!

WacoFan said:
Idea -

Non-union pilots have no recourse if they get fired for refusing this freight. They also have a diminished motivation everytime an Amerijet pilot scabs his own airline. After the strike, the strikers will have a job, the scabs will have a job, and the non-union pilots who displayed more courage than either of those groups are absolutely toast - they get nothing. So, IBT, ALPA, APA, and the rest should try to give some kind of tangible benefit to these people if they actually do get canned. I would think some kind of job assistance or placed on a preferential hire list somehow. ALPA/APA/IBT/SWAPA are all quick to condemn (via the scab list), but what are they doing to help non-union guys who display the courage of their convictions?
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Thats pretty much it. A very uncomfortable position to be in indeed.
 
WacoFan said:
Idea -

Non-union pilots have no recourse if they get fired for refusing this freight. They also have a diminished motivation everytime an Amerijet pilot scabs his own airline. After the strike, the strikers will have a job, the scabs will have a job, and the non-union pilots who displayed more courage than either of those groups are absolutely toast - they get nothing. So, IBT, ALPA, APA, and the rest should try to give some kind of tangible benefit to these people if they actually do get canned. I would think some kind of job assistance or placed on a preferential hire list somehow. ALPA/APA/IBT/SWAPA are all quick to condemn (via the scab list), but what are they doing to help non-union guys who display the courage of their convictions?
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KLB said:
Thats pretty much it. A very uncomfortable position to be in indeed.
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Waco our recourse is we could go to bed at night with a clear conscious.

I (along with others) at my airline could have been in this position if we didn't vote in a union. My mind was already made up, I would much rather be fired, than fly struck work.

I would/will not throw my fellow pilots under the bus trying to make this industry better. If I had to explain it at the interview, it would have been a simple "I got fired for refusing to fly struck work." It might actually HELP in an interview at a reputable company, who understand the process, as it shows you have moral character. Even though I got turned down at Delta, the hiring director had a big 'Thank You' poster in his office from ALPA for the work he did before he took that position. He wouldn't have had that in there if he wasn't proud of the work he did.
 
Seggy said:
Waco our recourse is we could go to bed a night with a clear conscious.

I (along with others) at my airline could have been in this position if we didn't vote in a union. My mind was already made up, I would much rather be fired, than fly struck work.

I would/will not throw my fellow pilots under the bus trying to make this industry better. If I had to explain it at the interview, it would have been a simple "I got fired for refusing to fly struck work." It might actually HELP in an interview at a reputable company, who understand the process, as it shows you have moral character. Even though I got turned down at Delta, the hiring director had a big 'Thank You' poster in his office from ALPA for the work he did before he took that position. He wouldn't have had that in there if he wasn't proud of the work he did.
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I absolutely understand your post. All I am saying is that the unions need to do something tangible for the people that are in this position and stand up for what is right. It would seem that people that do this would be the ideal trade unionist and the unions would want to benefit people like this and see them succeed because the union would benefit from that. Think of it as marketing. I just think that the unions are quick to jump on the negative (scab list, which I would carry if I were a 121 pilot), but they should also be quick to jump on the positive and nurture it.
 
There were pilots at UAL, I think about 570, that were on probabtion and fired during their strike. All were hired back as part of the strike settlement.

I suggest you read Flying the Line Volumes 1 and 2. Unions DO protect those who are fired during a strike very well.
 
Wheels,

Like I said...

If I had to explain it at the interview, it would have been a simple "I got fired for refusing to fly struck work." It might actually HELP in an interview at a reputable company, who understand the process, as it shows you have moral character. Even though I got turned down at Delta, the hiring director had a big 'Thank You' poster in his office from ALPA for the work he did before he took that position. He wouldn't have had that in there if he wasn't proud of the work he did.
 
Seggy said:
There were pilots at UAL, I think about 570, that were on probabtion and fired during their strike. All were hired back as part of the strike settlement.

I suggest you read Flying the Line Volumes 1 and 2. Unions DO protect those who are fired during a strike very well.
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First, unions do NOT protect anyone that is fired from a non union airline during a strike for refusing to fly struck work.

Second, are you really asking someone to get fired from their job with the economy the way it is...

I understand not going to fly for Amerijet, I understand not flying struck freight if you have some protection. But asking someone to get fired, your going a bit far there.

Are you going to pay their bills? Are you going to find them a new job? If not dont ask someone to do that for you.
 
3enginejock said:
First, unions do NOT protect anyone that is fired from a non union airline during a strike for refusing to fly struck work.
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You are right. However, it could be explained away in an interview like I said above. It would be a badge of honor I personally would wear (however the chances of me going to a nonunion carrier again are pretty much zero).


Second, are you really asking someone to get fired from their job with the economy the way it is...
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I am asking for people to have moral character which is part of the ATP Requirements FWIW. Like the poster above, I would NEVER have flown struck work when we were nonunion.

I understand not going to fly for Amerijet, I understand not flying struck freight if you have some protection. But asking someone to get fired, your going a bit far there.
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No I don't think I am going to far. I am asking people to stand up for what is right in this industry.

Are you going to pay their bills? Are you going to find them a new job? If not dont ask someone to do that for you.
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I will help someone to find a new job. What about the strikers? They also have bills to pay.
 
ppragman said:
Am I the only one who is kind of disgusted by this?
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Disgusted by what? I'm disgusted that there are over 10 pilots crossing a picket line. Talk about stabbing your brothers in the back!

The website? It's just showing who's going to work, nothing more, nothing less. Far worse is the aforementioned actions of the scabby pilots.
 
My point was more of a marketing point of view. ALPA and the other unions are quick to use the stick, but not the carrot. All I am saying is that someone that willingly walks off his non-union job in solidarity with a strike and with a unionized industry should be afforded some kind of benefit from the union - be it placement help, special recognition, or any of the other things that a union could do to show appreciation. When you have 20% of a pilot force that is scabbing its own strike it is somewhat of a disincentive for a non-union pilot to get fired in this economy simply to have an interview story to tell. This is simply a marketing thought guys - the unions do a great job of tarring and feathering (rightfully so), but they also need to recognize non-member who step up and support them.
 
Divine Wind said:
Of course not. As previously mentioned, all pilots benefit when the industry standards are raised and we all lose when the industry standards fall.

The confusion is caused by 727to7400's assertion that ALPA must come running to any pilot union's assistance when needed. This is wrong on two levels.

First, I'd rather see my dues and union assets used for the direct assistance of my union's members, not another. We're not responsible for other unions, pilot or otherwise, and we certainly aren't a charity.

Secondly, it is completely out of line for someone outside my union to demand or even question our assistance in their own union problems. Would they be equally whiney about our involvement if ALPA jumped into their politics or other affairs? I think not since this is why they chose to affiliate with another union instead of ALPA.
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Divine Wind, you miss the point. No one is asking for ALPA's money or "charity" as you call it.

When pilots are on strike anywhere, ALL pilots should support them. Just as when IFALPA sends out a call for assistance worldwide.

Trade unionism means you support your fellow union workers. Even the
"truck drivers," that seem to be so derisively looked down on by some here. After all, is there much difference between what we do (hauling loads of people or cargo) and what they do? They're licensed by the DOT, take DOT medicals and have rules also.

Yeah, they don't wear spiffy uniforms, but they are in the same business...public transportation of people and commodities. Ever heard of a "Certificate of Convenience and Necessity?"

No one wants or needs ALPA's "charity." ALPA ought to be joining with others to defend the profession. Plain and simple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZFMLh_tZtM
 
WacoFan said:
My point was more of a marketing point of view. ALPA and the other unions are quick to use the stick, but not the carrot. All I am saying is that someone that willingly walks off his non-union job in solidarity with a strike and with a unionized industry should be afforded some kind of benefit from the union - be it placement help, special recognition, or any of the other things that a union could do to show appreciation. When you have 20% of a pilot force that is scabbing its own strike it is somewhat of a disincentive for a non-union pilot to get fired in this economy simply to have an interview story to tell. This is simply a marketing thought guys - the unions do a great job of tarring and feathering (rightfully so), but they also need to recognize non-member who step up and support them.
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I think you're absolutely right. I wouldn't even know how to start that kind of thing up. Once again, waco, shows himself to be a voice of reason.

I wish we could just make the country a closed shop, pie in the sky though.

FWIW: F scabs.
 
Calling in sick is an option, but only if you know for sure the cargo that day will have Amerijet freight, which at some places is hard to know.

We fly to the same places Amerijet flies every day. We wouldnt be able to tell if the flight is going to have Amerijet cargo until we show up. If a new charter pops up to an Amerijet destination then of course that would work.

Seggy, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Your asking to much by asking people to quit their jobs.

Me personally, If I see Amerijet freight I will tell the captain about it and see what he can do. If he does not want to do anything I will call the CP myself and ask him about it. If he says fly then its on his shoulders, I wont get fired over something like this and I wouldnt expect anyone else do it for me if the situation was reversed.
 
WacoFan said:
My point was more of a marketing point of view. ALPA and the other unions are quick to use the stick, but not the carrot. All I am saying is that someone that willingly walks off his non-union job in solidarity with a strike and with a unionized industry should be afforded some kind of benefit from the union - be it placement help, special recognition, or any of the other things that a union could do to show appreciation. When you have 20% of a pilot force that is scabbing its own strike it is somewhat of a disincentive for a non-union pilot to get fired in this economy simply to have an interview story to tell. This is simply a marketing thought guys - the unions do a great job of tarring and feathering (rightfully so), but they also need to recognize non-member who step up and support them.
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The issue is unions don't do the hiring. And people are still ignoring your point, which is still excellent.
 
Seggy said:
Wheels,

Like I said...

If I had to explain it at the interview, it would have been a simple "I got fired for refusing to fly struck work." It might actually HELP in an interview at a reputable company, who understand the process, as it shows you have moral character. Even though I got turned down at Delta, the hiring director had a big 'Thank You' poster in his office from ALPA for the work he did before he took that position. He wouldn't have had that in there if he wasn't proud of the work he did.
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Still missing the point. ALPA doesn't have an answer for it either.
 
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